Basic, general question about reds

[Tastevin]

Foodie, re '....confused the issue of spraying sulphur on vines with adding SO2 to wine during the winemaking process'. No I'm not. It was not me, and it would not have been. T

[Tastevin]

So, is anyone going to help Winenovice25 or not? T

[Innkeeper]

WGC did immediately.

[Kcwhippet]

I thought I did when I mentioned Badger Mountain. So, Winenovice25, go to your nearest wine shop and ask for Badger Mountain. They make some rather nice wines, all made with No Added Sulfites. You didn't put in your profile where you live, so can't give specific recs for shops. If we knew where you were, one, or more, of us could probably give you the name of a shop that should have, or be able to get, the NSA wines for you. If they don't have Badger Mountain, they may have one of the following - La Rocca, Vinatura, Orleans Hill, Organic Wine Works, Frey, Carmen or Chateau Los Boldos. The last two are from Chile.

Incidentally, the last year the USDA gave statistics that I could find, they reported just six incidents of sulfite reaction in the United States from all food and drink sources, not just wine. Because of the regulations regarding the sulfite scare in the U.S. all healthcare professionals (hospitals, clinics, physicians, etc.) are required by law to report all such cases, but all they came up with is six. The legal limit for sulfites in food products is 350 ppm. Wines made with sulfites added generally have about 25 ppm or a bit more. The labeling requirement is that any amount over 10 ppm requires the sulfite warning label. These are facts, T, not speculation, rant or uneducated opinion. I would believe one of your supreme erudition should find it quite easy to verify, rather than dismiss out of hand.

[Thomas]

You are correct Tastevin. I remember now.

The earlier confusion between your posts and mine was not about sulphur spraying on vines. The confusion was about copper sulfate spraying in the vineyard as opposed to the dis-allowed practice of adding copper sulfate during the winemaking process.

Yeah, KC. And what you did not mention is that the government warning about sulfites appears only on alcohol products, the very products that contain the lowest sulfite levels. There is no warning on packaged baked goods (often potassium metabisulfite as a preservative, generally in higher levels than in alcohol). In fact, to those who say to me they are allergic to the sulfites in wine (headaches, backaches, you name it) I ask if they eat packaged baked goods and if they get the same reaction.

The reason for the government slap at alcohol with those labels warnings: anti-alcohol groups pressured the govt. in the mid 1980s, seeing this bogus issue as one wedge to use to make alcohol seem evil.




[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-01-2004).]

[Tastevin]

Foodie, re '....confusion was about copper sulfate spraying in the vineyard as opposed to the dis-allowed practice of adding copper sulfate during....' Not me!
I remember anti-smoking groups being accused of scaremongering too.
Innkeeper, I know WGC did and I acknowledged it - see my post. T

[This message has been edited by Tastevin (edited 04-01-2004).]

[Kcwhippet]

Hmmm. No comment on my last two posts.

[Drew]

And Tastevin, you used the word wittering incorrectly as pertains to my post. Are your responses meant to irritate and negatively disrupt this board or is your response due to your embarrassment re. to your ignorance concerning certain wine issues?

Drew

[Tastevin]

Drew, re '...used the word wittering incorrectly...', and '...ignorance concerning certain wine issues...', an explanation would be nice please. T

[Tastevin]

Congratulations Kcwhippet, a nice helpful response to Winenovice25's request. Anyone else? T

[Drew]

A two sentence response does not a wittering make and your ignorance concerning the non existance of sulfite free wines. I grow weary of people who take a defensive and attacking stance towards factual and civil replies. I participate in this board because it's good fun and learn something different every day. I have never assigned myself the title of expert and will openly admit I know enough to be dangerous. You, however, through the language and tone of your posts, seem to be very impressed with yourself and if someone disagrees or states another position your response is to apply negative descriptors in defense. In simple english, Tastevin, you don't come across as a nice person and that's a shame as this is a nice board. This board is a nice, fun escape and there's plenty of bantering but when you become defensive and rude maybe you should rethink why you're here.

Drew

[winoweenie]

Must add my comments ot agree with the Drewski. You seem to go for days with extremely informative and good posts aand then get this defensive tone that is abrasive. We've been thru this many times before on the board and try to keep our comments civil. There is a lot of comradie between the regulars on the board and as Drew pointed out there's something to be learned daily. Not one person who posts puts himself up as an " EXPERT", but all of us have extensive knowledge in certain aspects of the wine spectrum. I personally have little or no knowledge of white wines, or wines outside of the West Coast or Bordeaux. Consequently I never make posts on those threads. So take us at face value and have some fun. WW

[Thomas]

Tastevin, in the Novice Forum archives--2/15/04 Last two entries.

Tastevin
Yes Foodie, I am aware of all that.
Are you saying that copper precipitation is never, and can ever be, found in a bottle of American wine?
What is used to combat oidium in the States?

Foodie:
I don't think the government frowns on copper use in the vineyard, so long as it is sprayed well before harvest, whatever time schedule that is.

It's in the winery where copper is a general no-no.

[Tastevin]

GENTLEMEN, it seems that I have offended you, for which I apologise. It was not my intention to cause offence during this debate on sulfite, or previously. I suppose I do tend to shoot from the hip as it were. This is the first time I have been reprimanded; I guess people over here have got used to me by now . Foodie, touche! Yes, if I remember correctly we were discussing copper precipitation. I was expressing doubt that that could never occur in wines made in the States. Drew, re 'wittering' - matter of opinion. You posted earlier - '...your ignorance concerning certain wine issues?' What were those please? T.

[Innkeeper]

Cheers!

[Thomas]

Tastevin, no hard feelings here. I love a debate, as long as character is not attacked.

FYI, 20 years in the wine business: started out growing grapes and making wine commercially, and now I sell wine at retail, plus I am a freelance wine and food writer. Drinking wine, in my case, began at 8 years old; eating food, of course, began a little sooner than that!!!



[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-02-2004).]

[Tastevin]

I think I must be longer in the tooth (does that mean older there too?) than you Foodie. Started in wine trade in 1956, enjoyed it so much I never left it until I retired early a couple of years ago. It was a great way to earn a living. Wine scene has certainly changed a lot since my early days. Started drinking wine when very young, was always first in queue for communion wine! Unfortunately I always got caught when going around for seconds. T

[winoweenie]

Very good Tasty. There is no one on the board longer in the tooth than moi' and few have more fun. Hopefully you see the difference between a lively discussion and vitrolic attacts. HAVE FUN!!! WW

[Drew]

It's not a matter of opinion...it's a matter of definition. Look it up. DH