Corke wine % increasing???

[Botafogo]

I would be very interested to here (especially from those in the trade) what opinions are as to the average percentage of bad bottles these days. After reaching nearly an all-time low in the early nineties, I see as much as 3% some days and not just in cheapie Southern Italian stuff but big time Barolo, serious Champagne and Cal Chards. I would LOVE to see artificial corks become the norm or even screwcaps!

Roberto

[barnesy]

I hate corked wine and it would be good to have synthetics or screwcaps on most of the wine. But people don't know what effects screwcaps and synthetics have on the long term aging of finer wines. But agable wines are what...5 to 10% of wines produced,

Of course the cork industry claims its trying to solve the problem. Maybe they will actually come up with something.

Barnesy

[Kcwhippet]

Interestingly, we've only had one corked bottle returned in the past five weeks. Are the consumers here just dumping the wine and not saying anything? I've seen about six leakers in that time period while stocking the racks.

[Drew]

I've had very few corked wines, mostly I get the cooked ones...my retailers have all exchanged them when I return 'em. Botofugo, I'm with you re. to synthetic corks.

Drew

[Bucko]

Australia has used the Stelvin screw cap for 20 years. Some old Rieslings using these caps have done extremely well.

Bucko

[winoweenie]

I'm still of the strong opinion that some of the corkiness problems are storage induced. WW However I do agree that there's not a bloomin'thing wrong with synthetic corks or screw-caps. Takes me back to my 40-40 days.

[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 05-23-2001).]

[Bucko]

You've goota read this!

LIWSF: Cork taint findings hard to swallow
23 May 2001
Source: Chris Brook-Carter

The Wine & Spirit Association reported the preliminary findings of its joint investigation into the level of mustiness in wines on sale in the UK today, saying that only 0.6% of wines sampled showed musty defects.

Presenting the report, Martin Hall of Campden & Chorleywood Food Research Association said that of 5735 samples tested 55 (1%) showed signs of being oxidised, 32 showed signs of mustiness (0.6%) and six were volatile.

But despite assurances to a packed conference that these were only preliminary results, the findings met with disbelief and indeed open hostility by some members of the industry.

The results fly in the face of current beliefs that taint in wine could be as high as 10% of all bottles on sale in the UK. Industry leaders, such as Mike Paul, formerly of Southcorp said they couldn't believe the figures.

Paul said: "We were saying it was nearer 4% and that anything under 1% wasn't a big issue, so where do we go from here. I have to say I find these figures hard to believe."

Another attendee from a large Australian wine firm said he found the findings "absurd".

The main worries seemed to stem from the way the research had been carried out. Delegates were particularly concerned by the large number of wines sent in from participating companies, such as off-licence chain Oddbins, that were suspected of taint but which were subsequently rejected as having no detectable mustiness.

Of the 5735 tested 102 were sent for verification with suspected mustiness but only 32 were verified as musty.

However Chairman of the discussion Dr Barry Sutton said: "These figures are still preliminary. It looks like we are talking about a 0.6% problem, but it may not be 0.6% by the end, we need to go deeper into certain issues."

The panel also contested the feeling that 0.6% amounted to no problem for the trade. Richard Gibson, part of the investigation and technical director of Southcorp said that even at 0.6% someone somewhere in the world was opening a faulty bottle of Southcorp wine every 25 seconds.

Bucko

[winoweenie]

Buchster, does this seem to go along with what I keep harping Anout? Mr. Oddbin mite have shipped some bottles that had better provenance than the stuff sent to the general market. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my incidence of corkage is under 1%. WW

[Bucko]

Mine runs about 1% as well.

[chittychattykathy]

Out on a limb here with 4% to 6%. (And these wines are mainly coming straight from Wineries, Samples from my Reps, and wines I try at tastings.) I cannot tell you how many times I've tried a wine at a tasting that eight other people before me tried and did not ask for a new bottle. Guessing many of these folks figure it is just "bad" wine, which is too bad, cuz in most cases the new one that is opened is fine.

[Bucko]

6%!! What are you kiddo, a molecule detector? You will fit in fine with Bryan Loofbourrow from my tasting group. I will suck, blow, swill, spit and stand on my head trying to taste corkiness in a wine that he matter-of-factly declares "Corked!" We have not had a tasting in a while -- gotta get one together and get you over for the tasting. It is always a lot of fun. The unseasonable weather has everyone out in the yard, myself included.

Bucko

[chittychattykathy]

Oui! & I have a special selection of wines set aside for such an event!
(BTW: I have only had two tainted wines from Alsace, and one was very, very, faint.)

[Botafogo]

I must say that I was not just referring to "corked" wines in the strictest sense but also wines that have either spoiled due to cork failure and / or have refermented in the bottle. We deal in a LOT of unfined and unfiltered wines and have come to accept at LEAST 3% spoilage as "normal" in such wines.

Roberto

[Botafogo]

On another note, I also often see tasters (especially restaurant buyers and salesmen for large liquor companies) declaring the only wine in a group that has any real character (as in not just a fuit / oak bomb that has been nuetered with UC Davis food chemistry methodology) to be "corked"!

[winecollector]

Of the hundreds of wines I've popped a cork on over the years, I can remember only about 5 that were either corked, cooked, or undergoing a secondary fermintation. I attribute at least 3 of the 5 to poor storage prior to my receiving them. I hafta side with the under 1% crowd.

[Thomas]

WW, you can side with the under 1% crowd--your choice--but us in the business have little choice when a customer brings back a spoiled bottle.

I agree with CCK; much of the cork-spoiled wine I encounter has been stored by the winery (if it wasn't pushed out the door right after bottling) or by the distributor before delivery to me--not in my cellar. I am in the 3% range of corked experience, and I am getting better at picking up cork tainted wines.

Quite often, my dinner associates cannot pick it up until I open a second bottle and have them compare; it happened just last week with some dinner guests at my home. The wine was an Estramadura (Portugal) value-product I had tasted and am selling at the shop. The first bottle I opened at dinner with my guests was ever-so-slightly musty. I declared it "corked." We argued and discussed; I opened another bottle and was proven correct; the second surely was what it was supposed to be, and the first was bad. And this scenario has happened far too often lately. We need a better way to cap the bottles.

[winoweenie]

" A better way to cap the bottles" ....................................
Or a better storage from winery to cellar. All I've tried to get across is that 95 % of the wines I get go from winery into my cellar and the others are wines that I can veruify have come from winery in reefers to the dist, and in air-conditioned trucks to the retailer and I pickup within a day or two. Good Provenence. WW

[barnesy]

There are even a couple stores back east that have their store temps at 55. They give customers a fleece jacket when they come in. Now thats dedication to keeping it cool.... I wonder if they have a high rate of employees getting colds....

Barnesy

[Thomas]

Listen, some corks are a problem--we aren't the only guys to say this. A chemical reaction after sterilization is the suspect. Some believe poor storage coupled with the chemical reaction helps cause the problem, Perhaps, but that means there are an awful lot of poor storage wineries in this world? I have had corked wines from Portugal, France, Spain, Italy, California, and just about everywhere else, with names like Trimbach, Tomassi, Vina Mayor, Sautereau, Mondavi, et al.