Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 12:38 AM,

You can put George Carlin in the same category as those you've mentioned, Roberto. I've always enjoyed his unique way of looking at life, but had to quit reading his last book about half-way through. I can only stand the f-word so many times before I have to quit. I know there are many who don't mind the foul language; heaven knows these people have made lots of money using it. It's just not for me.

Thomas · 09-02-2003, 08:14 AM,

Methinks, and I am no prude, that so-called foul words are a bit overused, often by those who cannot seem to get a point across without them.

But then, they are only words. I would rather someone call me evry foul word in the book--instead of physically assaulting me!

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 09:35 AM,

Yeah, I'd have to subscribe to the "sticks and stones" philosophy myself!

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 11:11 AM,

Georgie, please elucidate for us just WHY $#it offends and "feces" does not? It is clearly a result of some sort of arbitrary conditioning as they both have exactly the same literal meaning, yes? This is not a knock on you but a serious question (and the entire thesis of the late great Lenny Bruce).

I would offer the following theory:

The short, to the point (generally Germaninc in origin) words that offend you are being percieved on a gut, emotional, animal level while the longer, academic sounding (generally Latin or Greek in origin) are processed more intellectualy and dispassionately. This is a direct result of the Puritans, who wanted to tell everyone how to live and were evicted kicking and screaming from the Low Countries and England for that.

But that's just my theory, Roberto

[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 09-02-2003).]

Thomas · 09-02-2003, 11:25 AM,

Goes without saying that in the writing business, concise is better than long-winding. If it takes four letters to get the same message across as it does with six in defecate, or eight in fornicate, well then, which is concise?

On the other hand, in writing, the palatable choice, as in wine, is subtlety over bombastic attack.

[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 09-02-2003).]

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 11:51 AM,

But, Thomas, my point is that the REASON there is a percieved bombasticity (a new and wonderful word for you) in the Anglo-Saxon / Deutch words is an artificial conditioning and we should be beyond that (like other civilized cultures where "swearing" is an art form) by now....

~~Bucko~~ · 09-02-2003, 12:33 PM,

WHAT THE F### ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?

wondersofwine · 09-02-2003, 12:59 PM,

Foodie is numerically challenged--SIX letters in defecate? EIGHT letters in fornicate?

At the risk of further offending Georgie, which I don't really want to do...

In Nurnberg, Germany I was walking acrosss the street near the American High School. Some high school students were in front of me. One reminded the others that they were having a quiz in German that day. One guy said "Oh, great! I don't know shit in German!" I promptly said, "I do...it's Scheisse" (Just couldn't resist although I startled the students with my comment). When I told this same story to a friend, she accused me of cursing or blasphemy. I said no it isn't cursing (using name of God in vain)--it's just using crude or impolite language. In this case I did it for the humor--not to express anger, etc.

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 01:37 PM,

Gee, I never meant to begin such a long discussion on language. It's just a matter of personal taste, I guess. Good manners, civility and all that. Maybe it's because I teach little ones that I am very conscious of what's generally considered socially acceptable speech. I promise not to mention anyone's use of words again. Express yourselves in whatever way makes you happy. I'll try not to wince. I'm sure I'm coming across as quite the "goody-two-shoes" which I have to admit, I am NOT. But some terms are just (maybe just to me) vulgar and I don't care for them. That's all I have to say on the subject...I have 24 little impressionable cuties marching in here tomorrow and I have lots to do!

Thomas · 09-02-2003, 02:09 PM,

...I could swear on my screen there were six and eight letters respectively...I must have WS's keyboard...

Where the **** did I get that count from?

Hey, this thread is fun!

Auburnwine · 09-02-2003, 02:49 PM,

My ten-year-old called the class bully a "cinnamon-eating son of ten-toed harmonica player" (I'll mention that my lad does have the Tae Kwan Do black belt to back up his "fightin' words").

But rather than test his combat skills, the bully had to go off and ponder whether or not he had actually been insulted. Most fifth-graders don't seem to spend much time "signifying" with language-loving fathers. I think that the world would, however, be a better, less violent place if more kids learned to do the dozens.

Also, it's always better to have a Shakespeare quote at hand ("Hang off, thou cat, thou burr! Vile thing, let loose, or I will shake thee from me like a serpent!") than succumb to potty mouthed simplicity.

And now, as William said: "I must discontinue your company."

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 03:10 PM,

NOW we are getting somewhere: Curmie's FAVORITE song, The Signified Monkey by Johnny Otis, y'all sing along now:

The Signified Monkey told the lion one day

"there's a bad M*****F***** comin down your way

He's talking bout your mama and your sister too,

spreadin all that $#it that your GRANDMA do...."

It gets better (or worse depending on your point of view) from there, a certified classic of Americana.

Georgie, we will dissagree but I honestly believe the "little ones" would be better citizens and better educated if they were taught ALL the ways to say a thing and the contexts and rationale for using different modes of expression AND that, if we could quit conditioning them to fear (or cherish) certain words, their effect would be neutralized.

Linguistics is a wonderful thing and some of its most honored scholars are MAJOR fans of "profanity". I can't name the source but one noted that, in the speech of an English Gunnery Sargeant, the appearance of the adjective "f-ing" often signaled the impending arrival of a noun.

PS: Loved the German anecdote. When I lived in Germany in the 70's English and Deutch were fusing into such forms as "Chillen-sie" for "Chill out!" and "Vieder-stonen-sie" for "we'll get loaded together soon".

Robertinho da boca suja mas coraÃ§Ã£o puro

[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 09-02-2003).]

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 03:17 PM,

Roberto, my dear, all I can say is that it's a **** good thing I'm teaching third grade and you're not! I can just imagine one of your vocabulary tests! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/eek.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Georgie (edited 09-02-2003).]

Innkeeper · 09-02-2003, 03:26 PM,

Let's see, what wine will we have tonight?

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 03:35 PM,

Oh, IK, you're such a party ****er! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 04:58 PM,

Easy, we'll serve some Sangue di Giuda (the blood of Judas!) with a nice plate of that classic Italian dessert, Palle di Nonno (Grampa's balls!)....

Roberto

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 05:06 PM,

Georgie, you should be double thankful I am not IN one of your classes:

When I was ten I got up and confronted the SUNDAY school teacher over her assertion that "everytime you read about wine in the Bible it is just grape juice" with the fact that we had studied about Dr Pasteur and fermentation in school and that we had learned that, until the introduciton of refrigeration or filtration, there was NO SUCH THING as grape juice so therfore she was full of it.

My mother had me reading at a second grade level and thinking for myself when I hit kindergarten, scared the fecal matter right out of those teachers.

Love and hugs to ALL teachers, Roberto

[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 09-02-2003).]

winoweenie · 09-02-2003, 05:57 PM,

Agree with every tenant on the board. But as was pointed out earlier, the founder of this board made boot camp drill sergeants blush. And again, this thread was formed to say any and every thought that comes into your mind. IK, there's 20 other threads devoted to wine on this hummer. Love the way this thread has brought almost every critter registered out into the daylight. I personally enjoy the interjection of a nice profanity to underline a thought. Not quite in the same catagory as Curmy or Bucko but try to keep them used in a humorious light. Again lets' all lighten up and have fun.WW

Georgie · 09-02-2003, 05:58 PM,

Oh, I just can't WAIT until tomorrow. Thanks for the good thoughts! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]

Botafogo · 09-02-2003, 06:32 PM,

Georgie (or anyone), one thing that has haunted me for over two decades is a scene from one of the most hallowed of "good, educational, value driven" children's movies, ET the Extraterrestrial, wheren a nine year old boy retorted to some slight from his older brother by calling him, and I quote, "Penis breath!".

Since this assumes both a knowledge of and an aversion to homosexual oral sex by pre teens, how in the HELL did that line get past the censors? Because it was SO damn funny (and it was funny because it was completely unexpected).....

Good luck with the young'ens, do they allow you to keep a thorazine dart gun in your desk as back up in Joisey? Roberto

[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 09-02-2003).]

Translate