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+--- Thread: 2001 Coturri Chauvet Vineyard Zin TN's? (/thread-9720.html)
- Thomas - 12-20-2004
low, KC, low.
- pablo - 12-20-2004
You guys are funny. I guess your all happy that Constellation now has Mondavi - and that Challone is in the good hands of Diageo. Is that what you really want? - giant corporations that create nice wines that all taste the same?
- Innkeeper - 12-20-2004
I haven't tasted the Coturri wines, but I enjoy wines from small independent producers including some that make organic wine. I do choose to buy from small independent producers whose wines taste the same from bottle to bottle. From the evidence that has been presented here, that is not the case with Coturri wines.
- pablo - 12-20-2004
Thanks for your 2cents Innkeeper. I guess the WSJ, Parker, and The Ultimate Wine Lovers Guide have no weight with you.
- dananne - 12-20-2004
The WSJ, Parker, and The Ultimate Wine Lovers Guide aren't drinking my wine for me. My palate carries more weight than any guide, since I'm the one who the wine needs to please. I'm not going to enjoy a bad bottle of wine just because a reviewer liked it any more than I will a movie that got four stars. If Robert Parker wants to drink this, fine. I'll stick with wineries that produce products I actually like. There's a whole world of wine out there for me to explore. I'm not going to praise a bad bottle of juice just because it's different. In this case, from my experience, "different" doesn't equal "good." And, no, that doesn't mean one has to turn to the "evil empires" of the wine world to find consistency.
- Kcwhippet - 12-20-2004
Well, Pablo, if the Speculator, RP and the other one are what you use to make your purchases, then it sadly appears you may be a score hunter. I, and many others here, buy 50 or more cases a year. The majority of my buys are from wineries that make 3000 or less cases a year, certainly not your Constellation (haven't bought Mondavi in at least 12 years) or Diageo (have never bought Chalone) or any other big corporations you might want to name. Your references do carry weight to most here, BUT only as references, not to be followed as bible. After forty years drinking wine, and many years in the wine business, I rely more on my own taste to buy my wines. I read Laube, Steinam, Parker, Olken and the rest, and I'm able to quite accurately judge how I'll react to a wine based on what they've said in the past and how I've perceived the wine. One very important thing I rely on in the wines I buy is consistency. If I try a wine and I like it, I want to know that I can buy that same wine again (from the same vintage of course) and have the same experience. I don't find that consistency with Coturri, so, no thanks. I guess that leaves all that more for you, Pablo, so go for them. BTW, do you have any original thoughts of your own on the subject, or can you only parrot what others have said?
- pablo - 12-20-2004
What consumers want is reliable beverage products, and, once wine is a reliable beverage product, it isn’t quite wine.
- dananne - 12-20-2004
So, you're saying that wine is and should be unreliable?
- pablo - 12-20-2004
What I'm saying is - when you make wines with only grapes and natural yeast fermentations (no chemical additives – no sulfites – – no watering back – no acid adjustments/ chaptalization – no filtering or fining - no manipulation at all ). You wind up with unique wines that don’t appeal to everyone.
For people that are adventuresome, who have a little bit of soul in their lives and don’t want to drink wines that have been doctored and screwed with – then Coturri offers a good drop at a reasonable price.
- Glass_A_Day - 12-20-2004
Wow, I had missed this thread. I'm glad I found it. Now I can buy piss poor wine and tell everyone that it is good because they never had anything like it before. Thanks for opening my/our eyes Edwardo. I never knew crap was soo good. Also, I find it strange that RP and WS like it. From my experience, they only like mass produced and blended crowd pleasing wines. Great news again. I'm giving up Coors Light forever!!!
[This message has been edited by Glass_A_Day (edited 12-20-2004).]
- californiagirl - 12-20-2004
So pablo, who's paying you to plug Coturri anyways? And since their style of wine making produces the most absolutely perfect wine, what other wineries hold up to your standards? Which are your favorite?
- Kcwhippet - 12-20-2004
"For people that are adventuresome, who have a little bit of soul in their lives and don’t want to drink wines that have been doctored and screwed with..."
Well, Pablo, I like to think I'm a bit adventuresome, and I know I got soul, and I definitely don't want to drink wines that have been doctored and screwed with. That's why I drink wines like ROAR, Siduri, Lewelling, Loring, APVin, Sea Smoke, Red Car, Clos Mimi, Viansa, Willakenzie, Radio-Coteau, Bressler, etc. etc. etc. Notice there's no Coturri in the mix. What you described, BTW, winemaking with NO nothing is basically the way I made wine about 35 years ago. It tasted like crap, so I didn't make it that way anymore. I guess that's why I really don't like Coturri. He makes wine like I made it way back then before I figured out the correct way to do it.
- pablo - 12-20-2004
KC – I guess you have a pinot problem – those are all excellent houses – utilizing modern winemaking methods with a light touch – Coturri however is old school the way your grandfather used to make wine and his before that – are you saying that they all made wine the wrong way?
- Kcwhippet - 12-21-2004
Pinot problem? Four of the wineries I mentioned are Pinot specialists, the rest aren't - so? My grandfather was a distiller, and he made vodka, never wine. Old school, new school, old world, new world - makes no difference, as long as the wine is consistent bottle to bottle and doesn't show flaws.
- Glass_A_Day - 12-21-2004
Old School the way your Grandfather used to make wine? SO by that logic we should all buy model T's, black and white TV's, easily scratched albums, and all other lesser quality products because they are "old school." Who cares if there are better products out there. Let's sacrifice quality for the whole retro feel. Right on troll!!
- winoweenie - 12-21-2004
Guys you noticed Pablo has skirted answering the question of his touting this poor winery. I can assure you Pablo I've followed this winery since 1978 and From day one they have been completly inconsistant. This is due to POOR winemaking not, organic, old-school, individualist, just POOR. As long as we're quoting John Tilson who founded the Underground Wineletter wote back in the early 80s after reviewing the 78 cab favorably he tried another bottle and was shocked at how poor the wine was. Then he found out the single barrel winemaking thing and said succintly " I Was Bagged ". Any winemaker that lets wine on the market that ends up with secondary fermentation in the bottle is not " Old School" but lazy. I can assure you that no matter how many accolades you print about this winery you'll not sell a bottle to the knowledgeable members of this board. I'll stick with Diamond Creek, Ch. Montelena, Pride, Robert Craig, Caymus, Flora Springs, and the other multitude of great consistanly fine wineries in Calif. I hereby bequeath my allocation of Coturri wines to you foreever. WW
- Thomas - 12-21-2004
Well gang, this guy/gal ain't gonna budge. Some truly asinine comments he/she posted about what wine is.
Pablo, this debate has to hinge on your knowledge and the Coturri knowledge of what winemaking is. I don't suppose that either of you know that the Romans used SO2 about 2,000 years ago to preserve their wines--would that be old school enough?
Even older school, the Mesopotamians and the Greeks used to add wood resin, which made the wines taste like terpentine--come to think of it, maybe Coturri is on the right track after all...
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 12-21-2004).]
- hotwine - 12-21-2004
With all of the uncertainties facing the wine consumer on a good day.... vintage variations, cork integrity questions, unreliable shipment and storage conditions, to name a few.... why would anyone buy a wine that is KNOWN to be inconsistent? Thanks anyway, I'm not interested.
- californiagirl - 12-21-2004
I agree ww- I believe someone is ignoring me. Pablo?? What is your answer? Exactly who is paying you to plug Coturri? And what other wineries do you enjoy?
Seems to me, pablo, that you're ignorant and immature. People are entitled to their opinions. Being that this is supposed to be a civilized society, and you disagree with others opinions, then so be it. But name calling is for immature children. My 3 yr old has better manners.
- irisman - 12-21-2004
WOW...Pablo, you hit it right...drama and personal flair....Toni and Phil to a tee.
Folks, these guys make wine....old style. I've known them since the early 80's. They do come up with some rather spectacular Zins. True, they don't shoot for consistancy. If you have found one and you like it, don't you buy a case or two. I live in the wine country and that is the rule. If you like it buy it now, don't wait. If you don't like it...tell them about it. Don't tell Pablo or me, we don't make the wine. I happen to like the difference.
They don't try and compete, although they do like comments. Maybe some of your comments would be well spent on them directly.........Drama and Personal Flair...to a tee!! Even on the board!! They would love it.