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+--- Thread: wine with a beef braised in beer dish (/thread-779.html)
- dchen - 02-28-2001
I have a favorite dish, Carbonnades a la Flamande, a Julia Child dish , which is basically a beef stew braised in beer. I along with most of my friends would rather have wine with a meal. What wine(s) would mate with dish? Thanks
- Botafogo - 02-28-2001
That is not a "Julia Child" dish, it is the creation and pride and joy of the Liefman's Brewery in Oudenaarde, Belgium and you MUST use their Goudenband Oud Bruin or some suitable substitute (Oak Barrel Fermented Brown Ale with considerable lactic content) both for the dish and to serve with it!
There is a similar biere called "Petrus" that might get your wine geek friends excited.....See Michael Jackson's "The Beer Companion" or "Ultimate Beer", both have recipes and serving suggestions and, remember, there is NO wine remotely as complex as a good Belgian ale!
Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 02-28-2001).]
- Innkeeper - 03-01-2001
Hi Dchen, and welcome to the Wine Board. It is hard to argue with Roberto, but this is a wine board (he sometimes forgets). Although the Carbonnades he refers to may be the ultimate, there are others that are just fine too including Julia's. We have made a crock pot version for decades that we adapted from a 1975 book on slow cooking by Jacqueling Heriteau, a French Canadian. We have found that the best wines to go with it are Australian blends such as cabernet/shiraz. One in particular is Wynns Coonawarra Estate, Cabernet-Shiraz-Merlot Coonawarra. If you can find it, it runs around $12-$14. Here is our version of the Carbonnades:
BELGIAN BEEF STEW: (Carbonnades `A La Flamande). For slow (crock/crockery) pot; serve with boiled potatoes and carrots
3-4 lb Rump, round, or boneless chuck
1/2 tbl Olive oil
1/2 tsp Salt
1 tsp Pepper
2 tbl Butter
2 Sliced Bermuda onion (approx 4 cups)
2 Cloves garlic minced (or 1 tsp bottled)
1 Bottle Becks or Henikens dark beer
2 tbl Brown sugar
1/2 tbl Salt
1/2 tsp Granulated garlic (garlic powder)
2 Springs parsley
1 Large bay leaf
1/2 tsp Dried thyme
1 1/2 tbl Cornstarch
2 tbl White wine vinegar
Cut beef into 1-1/2 to 2 inch pieces. Brown meat in olive oil in large skillet. Remove to bowl and season with 1/2 tsp salt and the pepper. Cook onion in same skillet with butter until medium brown. Stir in minced garlic for last minute. Put onion/garlic into slow-cooker with meat and its juices on top. Bring beer to boil in skillet with sugar, scraping up pan juices. Add to cooker with remaining salt, garlic powder, parsley, bay leaf, and thyme. Cover and cook on low for 8 hours. Drain stew in colander, reserving liquid. Pick parsley stems and bay leaf out if possible. Reduce liquid in sauce pan until it measures two cups. Dissolve cornstarch in vinegar, and add to liquid. Simmer till sauce thickens (3-4 min). Return colander contents and sauce to cooker, and keep warm till serving time.
- Botafogo - 03-01-2001
The biere in question "Oud Bruin" is labeled in Belgiaum as "Burgundy" and fabulously demonstrates the origins of flemmish brewing culture: Until climate changes in the middle ages, they could make wine in Belgium and when it became too cold to do so anymore they did not look to the germans for inspiration but applied wine technology and methods (barrel fermentation, aging in the bottles on the lees like Champagne and others) to barley and other ingredients. The results are the most varied, complex and food friendly bieres in the world, ranging from citrus and coriander scented Wit Bieres that remind one of Alsatian Muskats to the robust and spicy, 12% abv Chateauneuf du Pape wannabe Trappist dubbels, with an entire cuisine dedicated to them. If you have not tried a representative sample of the more than 200 different styles (not labels, STYLES) made in the land where the Brewer is King, you are seriously missing out on one of life's great gourmet pleasures.
AND, the fact that a MAGNUM of eight year old Chimay Grand Cru Reserve can be had for under $25 and 750ml bottles of most for under $8 makes them the perfect budget stretcher so you can afford to try those overpriced California wines.......
Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 03-01-2001).]
- Thomas - 03-02-2001
Wish NY law would allow us to sell those suckers in my wine shop! Any room in S. Monica for a good wine (and beer) salesman, Roberto?
- Drew - 03-02-2001
I have to agree, I do love Chimay and 3 Monts Ales
Drew
- Botafogo - 03-02-2001
Foodie, we are always accepting interns, and, Drew, the Tre Montes is the best White Graves ever made!!!!
- Botafogo - 03-02-2001
AND, if at all possible, use a beer with high lactic acid content in the recipe (NOT Heineken or Becks, think Rodenbach, Goudenband, Ichtegems, Petrus, or other "red or brown" ales) as the tenderizing effect of this sort of ale completely makes the dish
- Innkeeper - 03-02-2001
No problem with using one of those if they could be found. Don't know where the original poster lives, but those that you mentioned are only found in the largest metros. Like all imports, how to you control freshness?
- Botafogo - 03-02-2001
THAT's the best part: great bottle conditioned Belgian ales get better with age (up to ten years!) so this is not an issue. For those of your in the northeast, Ommegang Brewery in Cooperstown, NY, not only makes wonderful axamples of these styles, their motto is "Guaranteed NOT fresh!" (a slap in the face to CoordweiserLiteIce and their "born on" dating) as all the bieres are aged three months at the brewery before release.
- Innkeeper - 10-21-2003
Had the Belgian Beef Stew again tonight with all the fixings for brother, Bev, and moi. Didn't have a Cab/shirz from Oz in one bottle, much less two in the cellar, so here's what I did. Am sure I will take heavy flack for this.
Took a bottle of the 2000 Bleasdale 'Mulberry Tree' Cabernet Sauvignon and a bottle of the 1998 Bianchi Syrah mixed them together in equal parts in two carafes. The result was wonderful. Went extremely well as an aperitif and with the meal. Brother was both flabbergasted and impressed.
- wineguruchgo - 10-21-2003
Foodie I have to ask you what you can't sell in NY?
I'm born and raised in NY, yet I really didn't pay attention to what was in the State run liquor stores when I was there.
Wanna have fun selling? Come to Chicago my friend. The sky is the limit here and anything goes.
The wine/spirit/beer market is a crooked as the politicians that oversee them!
Not kidding. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
- Thomas - 10-22-2003
wineguru.,
There are no state run liquor stores in NY, but there is a corrupt alcohol control system, which can be said for just about every state.
In NY beer is sold only in grocery stores; wine and spirits are sold in liquor stores. is-wine is a wine shop. Our license is to sell only wine, including sparkling and fortified wines.
In NY a liquor or wine shop is prohibited from selling food, including water and soda mixers--makes a lot of sense doesn't it. But it does, after you consider the power of food lobbies and wholsale liquor lobbies, who, for now, are content with their separate domains. But the food lobbies are making inroads toward wine in grocery stores. I embrace the idea for two reasons: my shop could then include among its special wines food (olive oils and other so-called gourmet goods) and the big food chains can have the bulk, bad wine market all to themselves.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 10-22-2003).]
- wineguruchgo - 10-22-2003
I have been in Chicago for so long I forgot what a hassle it was as a consumer running from store to store.
Here everyone can sell everything. You can get beer/wine & hard liquor in 7-11! I remember being stunned about that when I first moved here!
Be careful though about wanting wines in grocery stores. That could end up hurting you. Here the grocery stores sell everything from Bella Sera to Banfi Brunello and Dom Perignon! The consumers are becoming far more savvy about wine and the stores are listening. As a restauranteur it hurts us and their pricing probably hurts the independent retailers as well because they work on a lower margin.
- Thomas - 10-22-2003
I understand what you mean about the grocery stores, but NY City is quite unique in that regard. We still have a goodly amount of neighborhood shopping, on foot, and a good density of residents per block. is-wine also provides trained wine people who can recommend wine based on a person's meal, apprehensions, likes, dislikes, et al. We also do not stock wines that easily flow (excuse the pun) through the normal pipeline, choosing instead to deal with quite small distributors whose portfolios, not to mention the sentiment of the owners of these companies, simply has little appeal at large operations where volume takes precedence over service and knowledge.
I believe a shop like ours, and there are about 8 or 9 in the city, have a wonderful niche that will get better as soon as the large chains wipe out the horrible liquor stores that surround us.
- wineguruchgo - 10-22-2003
I thought this recipe sounded so good that not only did I buy all the ingredients, I bought a Crock pot to cook it in!!
Had trouble finding the Becks or Heineken Dark so I bought Guiness. I'm hoping it will be ok!
Foodie, I seem to remember a wine store near my apt. when I lived on the Upper East Side. I wish I had the appreciation for wine then as I do now. No, take that back. I didn't make enough money then and I would have been frustrated!
I always try to take care of the little independents because, to me, that's what makes a neighborhood.
I hope you get your wish!
- Innkeeper - 10-22-2003
The traditional accompaniments are mashed potatoes (use some of the gravy on them), and baby carrots. Enjoy!
- wineguruchgo - 10-23-2003
Mashed potatoes are a must!! I bought the carrots too! I'll let you know how it turns out with the Guiness.