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Desperately Seeking... - Printable Version

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Pages: 1 2


- stevebody - 01-13-2003

I'm a wine buyer, steward, and founder of a wine group here in Seattle and work as a wine consultant to more than a dozen restaurants, so what I'm about to ask is a little embarrassing but I'm going to ask anyway:

I do not and never have gotten what the hell is so fascinating about Pinot Noir, either American or Burgundy. I've asked every one of my Pinot weenie friends and none of them has EVER come up with a coherent answer. One mumbled something about complexity, another said he liked the red fruit component. I find them insipid, too light, and somehow incomplete. The only one I've ever tasted that absolutely rolled my sox down was a 1998 Bouchard Le Vigne de L'Enfact Lesu, which still had too little depth to make it of great interest to me.

I'm not out to challenge anyone's explanations. I simply don't get what the big deal is and would like to have an inkling because, as a wine salesman, this is my Achilles Heel. I WANT to like Pinot. I just don't.

Any coherent English ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.


- Innkeeper - 01-13-2003

I might ask if you feel the same way about Chianti? IMHO both pinot noir and sangiovese both make wines that are lousy quaffers. In other words they show their stuff when combined with food. Don't know if it's the high acid level in both or what.

I think that pinot is the most versitile food wine in the world. The lighter ones match lovingly with salmon, both fresh and smoked pork, duck, goose, game birds, etc. The more highly extracted ones can handle complex feasts such as Thanksgiving and Christmas. The in-between versions match with beef, lamb, heavily sauced veal dishes, and many others.

[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 01-13-2003).]


- Kcwhippet - 01-13-2003

I agree that Pinot Noir is mainly a food wine as opposed to a sipping wine. Last night we had an excellent Stephen Ross Edna Valley Pinot with panko breaded butterflied boneless pork chops and katsu sauce, accompanied by steamed rice with caramelized onions and carrots that were first boiled then sauteed in butter with a splash of lemon juice and a hint of dill weed. Delicious, dark wine with plums and berries on the palate.


- Thomas - 01-13-2003

The two above beat me to it.

How's this for a quote: "all wine would be red if it could, and all red wine would be Pinot Noir." Think maybe that fellow had a bias?

I have said the following on other fori: wine is food. That is key to enjoying Pinot Noir (or just about any other wine).

I am increasingly annoyed with the concept of judging wine as a stand-alone product. That makes it more like art, which some of it might be. But I am not in the art business, I am in the wine and food business. In fact, when wine is properly paired with food, people tend to shed some of their subjectivity about the wine. I have seen people who profess to hating white wine come to my wine and food seminar and learn to love combinations with white wine. I'll bet I can make you, Stevebody, at least admit that Pinot Noir has a place on this earth. But you can find that out on your own by preparing a meal to pair with the wine.

IK, I think the acid of Pinot Noir has a lot to do with it. But also, a well made Pinot Noir has a silky elegance to go along with the acid, which often helps to soften (or round) the forwardness of salmon or game meats.

Then again, there are the animal dropping smells of many Burgundian Pinot Noirs, matched by more racy and less elegant mouthfeel--so what would you do with them for food? Beef Burgundy anyone?



[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 01-13-2003).]


- stevebody - 01-13-2003

I admit Pinot is a great food wine. With our NW Salmon: Killer B! BUT, what I'm after IS the stand-alone qualities of Pinot that make people come back again and again. If there simply aren't any, okay. But I absolutely LOVE Sangiovese and am not at all put off by the acidity level. Sorry, and I really appreciate your replies, BTW, but I'm still looking for that...Thing that makes so many of my wine buds here in Sea-patch go weak in the knees.


- Innkeeper - 01-13-2003

I think you need to search out a pinot aficionado. Ones I have talked to or read accounts by tend to dismiss all efforts to put pinot in a box, so to speak. They tend to think that individual pinots are as distinct from each other as all other grapes are from each other. They argue about how the grapes from the northwest quadrant of Gary’s Vineyard in a given year compare with those from the southeast quadrant. I don’t think we have any such “experts” around here.


- Thomas - 01-13-2003

We have such experts. But how can you persuade someone to like something if he doesn't like it?

I agree with IK, Stevebody. You need those who go weak at the knees to explain why they do. My suspicion: they respond more to the hype than the taste. Right now, at least in NY City, Pinot Noir is the hyped up wine. I have people come into my shop seeking Pinot Noir, and when I point out a good Burgundy, they respond with, "haven't you any Pinot Noir? I just love it." Many of them used to say that about Merlot. Soon, you will hear Pinot Noir mentioned in movies; then, it will be a true fad.


- stevebody - 01-13-2003

Oddly, here in Seattle, all those Oregon Pinots just sit on the shelves of our shop and buds from other retailers say it's their slowest section, too. As for my friends and their knees, THAT'S who I've been unable to get an answer out of. Not one of these self-described Burgundy lovers could form a coherent sentence about what it was they love so much about it. "Complex" was a common theme but I've never had a single Pinot that was as complex as the high-end Italians I love so much or even as a good Napa or Walla Walla Cab. I've liked some Pinots a lot: David Bruce's Central Coast, Gregory Graham's CA bottlings, and even a couple of OR things, like the Archery Summit '98 Reserve or the Argyle Nuthouse. But not one of those would show up on my table more than once....Oh, well. Thanks for your good efforts, guys!


- Kcwhippet - 01-13-2003

Try one (or more) from Wes Hagen, Brian Loring and Adam Lee. Tell me what you think of each and then I can tell you exactly what you're looking for in a PN.


- Bucko - 01-14-2003

Ironically, I'm drinking an Oregon Pinot as I read through this thread. I always call Thomas a CA Cab lovers Pinot, and this 97 does not disappoint. It is well-structured, somewhat tannic, with lovely fruit, lots of earthy, black tea notes, finishing long and crisp.

My Achilles heel is Italian wine....


- stevebody - 01-14-2003

whip,

I wasn't familiar with any of those three names. Vintners? Wines? If wines, no distributor here, as I know these catalogs right well. I'll try them if I can find them and thanks for the help.


- Kcwhippet - 01-14-2003

Clos Pepe, Loring Wine Company and Siduri. If I can get them here in Massachusetts, you should be able to up there only two states away - and reciprocal to boot.


- Thomas - 01-14-2003

OK Stevebody, you work on those P Noirs Kcwhippet recommended and then make a trip to Bucko's home and unload some fabulous Italian wines--the guy needs help...


- stevebody - 01-14-2003

KC,

Thanks. I've actually had the Siduri and liked it...in the way I like Pinot. Clos Pepe: no Seattle distributor. Loring, possibly, but I'll have to look.

I'll revisit the Siduri. Weren't there two? One an appellation and one single-vineyard? Memory fails me. I had both and seem to remember liking the appellation better.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy a Pinot now and then but I want to get to why the passionate devotion. Maybe I'll never feel it but, as a wine salesman, communicating love for the wines is what makes me effective. I have no feeling about Pinot and I need AT LEAST a working empathy.

Thanks to all and, yeah, I'm a complete Italy/Spain wonk. You want suggestions, I got a zillion of 'em. Anytime!


- Innkeeper - 01-14-2003

The last time I looked Siduri put out a Santa Lucia Highlands bottling and a Gary's Vineyard Santa Lucia Highlands bottling.


- Kcwhippet - 01-14-2003

Here are Siduri's current releases.

2001 Archery Summit Pinot Noir
2001 Hirsch Vineyard Pinot Noir
2001 Pisoni Vineyard Pinot Noir
2001 Santa Lucia Highlands Pinot Noir
2001 Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir
2001 Sonoma County Pinot Noir


- Innkeeper - 01-14-2003

Well I got two of 'em!


- wondersofwine - 01-15-2003

If you have a chance to sample a 1999 grand cru red burgundy, I was utterly blown away by the Clos de Beze and Bonne Mares wines I tasted. It inspired me to put out big bucks for a 2000 Clos de Beze but I was disappointed in it at a tasting and ended up trading my one bottle back to the dealer for some California and Australian wines. The 1999 Clos de Beze (from Raphet) was a WOW wine in both aroma and taste. Grand cru red burgundies are certainly not everyday drinking wines but it might take one of those to "roll your socks up and down" if you go for the powerful over the subtle. What I like about some burgundies (even some village Volnay or Gevrey-Chambertin) is that they are BOTH subtle and powerful. The Siduri Pisoni, previously mentioned, is in the powerful category--I like it. David Bruce pinots go nicely with some cheeses. And I like some Argyle and Archery Summit pinot noirs. But the American p.n.'s aren't the same as great burgundies.


- Brian_Loring - 01-15-2003

stevebody - please email me at Brian@LoringWineCompany.com. Thanks!


- Innkeeper - 01-15-2003

Hi Brian, and welcome to our board. Sure hope you can help our new friend.

Carl Eppig, Innkeeper