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+--- Thread: 1996 Cult CA Cab Tasting -- Are they worth the bucks? (/thread-4501.html)
- Bucko - 06-04-2000
Spearheaded by Matt Mabus, over 60 enophiles converged on Matthews Cellars last night to the second annual "Mother of All CA Cult Cab Tastings." As usual, the starter and finishing wines that people brought far outstripped the event wines (for me anyway). There were far too many wines to report on all, but some real standouts for me were:
1989 Krug Champagne, Clos du Mesnil -- Simply stunning, with complex flavors toasty and a very long, lovely aftertaste. I did not find out who the generous soul was that brought this wine.
1993 Robert Weil Riesling TBA out of a 750ml -- Another stunning wine that approaches perfection. Still a baby yet, but has everything going for it, with luscious fruit, viscosity, and lazer sharp acidity to balance the R.S. Thanks to Bryan Loofbourrow for this gem.
1922 Bual Madeira brought by the Madeira hound himself, Chuck Miller. I am not an avid fan, but this one was darn tasty, simply loaded with toffee and hazelnut flavors that have you looking for a chocolate dessert.
Now, on to the 12 1996 wines of the night's event. 10 were top CA Cabs, two ringers, one supposedly a Leonetti, the other a Margaux. First number is how I placed the wine, second number is the group standing. There was good agreement in the first flight. The second flight was all over the place, with close voting.
Flight 1:
1,1 -- Ripe blackberry nose, very well-balanced, complex fruit flavors, silky tannins, and obvious but integrated oak. Yummy.
Phelps Insignia.
2,3 -- Hints of cedar and dusty aromas, blackberry and black cherry flavors, currants, sweet oak and modest tannins.
Ridge Monte Bello
3,6 -- Cinnamon and oak on the nose, quite tanic with black cherry, anise, chocolate and a strange, fleeting mango type of taste. Unusual.
Colgin
4,4 -- Anise and vanilla on the nose, chocolate, sweet oak blackberries, very tannic.
Pride Reserve
5,2 -- Blackberry and cherry nose, sweet black cherry fruit, overoaked, with a hot finish. Pass.
Peter Michael Les Pavots
6,5 -- Oak and cinnamon nose, red currants, spice and a lot of dill, bitter.
Surprise -- Margaux!
Flight 2:
1,5 -- Floral bouquet, blackberry and black cherry flavors, well-balanced, supple tannins, long aftertaste. Tasty.
Etude
2,4 -- This was actually tied for number one by me, but no ties allowed. Vanilla cherries and a chalky mineral nose. Big chalky, dusty flavors with blackberries and moderate tannins. Does not taste like CA, but does not taste like Leonetti?
Surprise -- Matt lied. He did not put in a Leonetti, rather this wine, Matthews Cellars (WA).
3,2 -- Blackberry and blueberry aromas and flavors, moderate tannins and sweet vanilla oak.
Dalla Valle Maya
4,1 -- Cherry vanilla nose, with acetone, currants and vanilla, finishing with soft tannins. Pass.
Araujo
5,3 -- Black cherry and cinnamon aromas, way overoaked with vanilla obscurring the cherry fruit. Silky tannins. Pass.
Screaming Eagle
6,6 -- Big barrel char nose, with huge smoky oak flavors, very sweet cherries, just simply horrid. A caricature of wine.
Bryant Family
Overall impressions -- Not a wine in the lot that I would even pay $40 for save for the Insignia, Etude and Matthews. I am amazed that these wines are commanding the dollars that they are......
Bucko
- Randy Caparoso - 06-04-2000
Very harsh, Bucko. Sounds like your senses were assaulted. But this was truly a wonderful collection, and it always seems such a shame for them to be thrown together like this. It's like shopping -- it's much more satisfying to buy coveted items one at a time. All at once, and one loses one's bearings in respect to value and appreciation. A human trait.
This happens to me time and time again (thank goodness, I'm human), where blue chip wines are not-so-hot in oversized tastings, but quite attractive when enjoyed on their own and judged by their own standards. This is why, logically, "taste-offs" prove almost nothing. During the past two years Decanter has run stories on several tastings involving two sets of expert panels judging the exact same wines, conclusively demonstrating that no individual or group has a lock on authority.
In any case, clearly the market for California Cabernet Sauvignon is dominated by people who prefer a wealth of flavor and almost hedonistic levels of intensity -- and these people have the wealth to drive up the asking prices. There is a lot to be said for knowing-what-you-like, but the drawback is that you are likely to fall victim to your own predilictions. The only remedy is to continuously expand one's taste. Develop a prediliction for, say, Chilean Cabernet/Merlot/Carmenere blends, Southern French Syrah/Mourvedre/Grenaches, Central Italian Cabernet/Merlot/Sangioveses, or "new" regions like Argentina, Arizona, Margaret River or Lazio. Quality is as much a state of mind as a sense of permanence.
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 06-04-2000).]
- Bucko - 06-04-2000
Huh? I see his lips moving, but I'm not understanding a thing.
Bucko
- Innkeeper - 06-04-2000
Bucko, my first impression was the same as yours, but I went back and read it very slowly. It really makes a lot of sense to me. I think it supports a lot of what the majority of our board members have been saying for quite awhile. Thanks Randy.
- Bucko - 06-04-2000
Well, first off, my senses were not overwhelmed. There were ONLY 12 wines -- a walk in the park. Granted, there were 30+ starter and finishing wines. I can tell good from bad (for my palate), in spite of the inevitable comparisons. The Bryan sucked, be it alone or with a thousand other wines.
AFA CA Cab being dominated by hedonistic this and that, and wealth to afford it, I say horse hockey. Karl Lawrence or Ritchie Creek Cab would have matched any of these high dollar wines at less than $40 a bottle. Ya gotta know where to look and not be a Wine Spectator or Parker lemming....
Finally, AFA expanding one's taste, I have to tell a story on myself. When I was stationed in Hawaii, I became fast friends with a wonderful fellow, Lyle Fujioka, who has the best wine stores on Oahu. After we had been friends for over a year, he confessed to me one night that he got all excited when I first came into his store. "Some redneck is out there buying about three cases of wine and it is not Cab, Chard, or Merlot!" We had a good laugh. I have one of the most diverse palates that I know of among my wine circles (not bragging on myself -- you all know old simple farm boy Bucko). I get very bored with the same old wines. I drink everything from Loire to Alsace to Rhone to Champagne to Germany to Portugal to Spain to OZ to Greek to even South America.
Bottom line -- these cult wines are highly overrated and highly overpriced -- IMHO!
Bucko
- Drew - 06-04-2000
Bucko, I agree with you 100+%.....Randy, I think you're a little off this time. You say "The only remedy is to continuously expand one's taste. Develop a predilection..." Are you suggesting Bucko learn to like the wines he didn't in order to report more positively on wines that have been reported to be "Great" with great big prices? Taste is Taste.....I know what I like, I think Bucko does also. What I got out of his tasting report was that they were good..... just not as big as they were reported to be.
Drew
- Drew - 06-04-2000
Have you seen the Wine Spectator web page headlines? Some idiot payed $500,000.00 for a 6 liter bottle of 92' Screaming Eagle! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/confused.gif[/img]
Check it out.
http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/S pectator/_daily|news38
Drew
- Randy Caparoso - 06-04-2000
You guys don't get it. Of course, I acknowledge that I may have been a bit obtuse. My points were that
1. Great wines tasted together don't always taste so great. Doesn't matter what they are -- DRCs, 1er grand crus Bordeaux, the heavy-hitter California Cabs. The best and most descriminating palates in the world start to take potshots at wines which, tasted by themselves, would impress anyone. Quality assessments are always relative; which is the natural pitfall of blind side-by-side tastings.
2. I'm suggesting that consumers are less likely to feel the need to buy overpriced wines (thus, driving the prices up even further) if they diversify their tastes. This has nothing to do with Bucko's personal tastes. It's a comment on the overall market. I'm afraid you've misconstrued some very broad observations as comments on his tastes and ability to taste.
In any case, I personally may not drink these top shelf Cabernets. I refuse to play the game. But I recognize the fact that certain reliable sources consider them to be be very, very good. Fact is, I also think highly of them. But what I think doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things, doesn't it? They're going to sell well, and for very high prices, with or without my (or Bucko's) benediction!
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 06-04-2000).]
- Innkeeper - 06-04-2000
Bucko, your mind started going a little crazy when he started out, "Very harsh, Bucko." Have had that sort of thing happen a time or two. The business about deciding which expensive cookie to take out of the jar, was a little weak too. But from then on it got interesting. There is a considerable force in this country that drives the cost of the Screaming Eagles of the world into the ionosphere, and loved it when you "passed" on it.
The truth of all this was driven home when we spent two days on the ground in Austin this past Easter. Much of the time involved talking to wine shop owner/managers. Left there with my mind reeling. Guess this can be expected in a town where a major corporate player (that sells mail order computers) has a workforce where every last member possesses over $1 million in stock options. Some obscene behavior has to be expected.
One thing we can do here is not give our benediction on things like RRV Pinot Noirs that cost upwards of $125.00. Forget the fact that anyone who spends that much on a Pinot Noir from this side of the Atlantic needs to have his or her wealth redistributed. Methinks that if someone is comfortable with that, it should be kept within; and not posted on a public forum with over 2000 registered members from all walks.
So let's all agree to take our predilictions in a better direction.
- Bucko - 06-04-2000
I give up......
Bucko
- winoweenie - 06-05-2000
Wait Just One Dern Minute Bucko, you KAINT give up yet. I just got on the thread. This is an argument that has no closure. It reverts to ones personal taste ( and Bucko I certainly respect yours ), their check-books, and as Randy says the context of the tasting. I, too , have had wines which on different occassions have rolled my socks up and down and others made me question my sanity for spending hard-earned on this or that plonk.The time, temperature, humidity, moon-alignment, et. al. didn`t work for this tasting. Next time Bucko, to spare you the agony, E-Mail me and I`ll fly up and take the punishment for you. What are E-friends For? Winoweenie
- mrdutton - 06-05-2000
Quoting from the article in Wine Spectator about the 1/2 million dollar bottle of Screaming Eagle:
"Going into it there was this sense of elation about the economy, as well as the quality of wines being made in Napa," said Christie's auctioneer Fritz Hatton, who conducted much of the bidding. "There's also a pride and elation about the lifestyle in Napa -- the art, the wine, the food."
I guess I'll never get to Napa. Damned if I can afford it............
Talk about conspicuous consumption, GADZOOKS, BATMAN. This is really obscene......
I've seen real Eagles flying over my head...... Now that, gentlemen, is priceless.
[This message has been edited by mrdutton (edited 06-05-2000).]
- winoweenie - 06-06-2000
Bucko, Cut my last reply short as I had to go to Tuscon but to continue.....No doubt wine prices for top estates are out of hand both here and everywhere in the world. Demand seems to do that to everything ( BUT CARPET . We can make the stuff WAY faster than builders can erect buildings.) Looking at the list of wines you tasted I agree with a lot of your observations and disagree with others.I don`t have Randys` patience or attention to detail, but one wine IMHO you are wrong about ( And it looks like your other 59 tasters agreed ) in the 2nd flight is the Araujo. The Eisele vineyards have given me some of my most memorable wine experiences,74 Conn Creek and 75 Phelps just being two. Never had a bad Phelps Eisele. I know you say you wouldn`t give 40 bucks for this, as Curmy said, " A Best-Buy/Steal-Deal can be a 100 buck bottle that tastes like 200." I got on the Diamond Creek bandwagon at the very beginning ( 72 vintage ) and even though I stay with Boots and Al when I`m in Napa, I`ve stopped buying the wine. Like you Bucko on the Dehlinger , I`ve been happily replaced by some-one on Als` mailing list.Life goes on. Red Wine Lives. Life is GOOD.....Winoweenie