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- joannie - 02-13-2003 07:45 PM

how is "bovine blood" used in making red wine in France?


- Bucko - 02-13-2003 08:33 PM

Poured into a vat, the ox blood will settle to the bottom. The proteins attract a lot of tannins and sediment on the way down, helping to clarify a wine. I'm not sure on the latest laws governing the use due to the mad cow disease scare. Egg whites are also used to "fine" a wine.


- Kcwhippet - 02-14-2003 06:01 AM

It's a practice that's been against EU law for a few years. Regardless, I doubt if more than a few wineries used bovine blood in the past ten years or so, and probably only those smaller wineries that don't send their wine here. There are so many more and cheaper ways to fine wine, the practice just went away. I suppose if you were really wary you might want to avoid wines from smaller wineries situated near slaughter houses in France made before 1998.


- Thomas - 02-14-2003 10:08 AM

Even egg white fining fades into the past...


- Botafogo - 02-14-2003 01:13 PM

Anyone else catch Comedian / Foreign Minister of Great Britain Jack Straw's opening line at the UN this morning?

"Mr. President, I come representing a very old country, founded in 1066, by the French as you recall....but we've come a long way since then." Ba-da-Bing! Rimshot please...


Roberto


[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 02-14-2003).]


- eskinnyc - 02-15-2003 08:23 PM

The bovine blood is really a sideshow, the real issue is addressing French perfidy and hypocrisy.

I know in these uncertain times that there are enough good wines produced by freedom-loving countries -- Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Portugal, Italy (and of course the USA) thats there's no need to be buying French wine right now. Maybe not for quite a while.


- Bucko - 02-16-2003 12:43 AM

So every country who disagrees with the US is wrong? I don't think so.

" If you are happy and you know it clap your
hands."

If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq.
Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we cant see,
And that's good enough for me
'Cos it's all the proof I need
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,(And he tried to kill your dad),
Bomb Iraq.

If your corporate fraud is growin, bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason, Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.


- Drew - 02-16-2003 02:42 AM

Right on Bucksinger, couldn't agree more as I hoist my second half of Chateau de Valcombe (even better the 2nd. day), and eskinnyc if you think a French or German winemaker has anything to do with their Govt. politics/stance on this recent mess...well you couldn't be more wrong. This is not the time to make up for the failed Desert Storm....they had their chance but like Vietnam the US is having trouble finishing wars in recent history. If France or Germany attack the US, then I'll boycott their wines.

Drew

[This message has been edited by Drew (edited 02-15-2003).]


- joeyz6 - 02-16-2003 04:39 AM

Bravo Bucko. And Drew, I'll be happy to pass along to a concerned friend here that not ALL Americans are boycotting French wines.
Vive la paix ...
-Joe


- winoweenie - 02-16-2003 09:37 AM

What a crock. The French winemakers have more problem with their government than we'll ever have.Wine is for bringing people together and not to be used as a divisive instrument. I for one can'y wait to get my grubby lil' paws on the 2000 bordeaux. BOYCOTT THIS1111 ww [Image: biggrin.gif]


- Innkeeper - 02-16-2003 09:47 AM

In vino veritas! At a dinner for our pastor at church last night our much divided parish raised glasses of Carlo Rossi (the vintage was an excellent week) and proclaimed this. Wine can certainly unify. Prayer helps too.


- Thomas - 02-16-2003 12:52 PM

I am 100% behind the sentiments expressed here about wine and governments. And the verse that Bucko posted, while simplistic, presents a lot to think about.

I expect what we are getting from our installed president and his scary minions, but I am deeply disturbed by Colin Powell's capitulation. He has lost all credibility with this voter who once saw him as a light of hope in the administration.

We wage war because we are peace-loving. Orwell was prescient.

With respect to Drew, who protects us from real dangers, I also deplore the police-state bent in Washington toward messing with our liberties in the name of freedom.


- eskinnyc - 02-16-2003 02:58 PM

Make no mistake about it, the French did attack the USA this week. Not militarily, they can't do that (its been French policy to freeload off of American security for decades) but diplomatically. They're so interested in sticking a thumb in the eye of us "simplistic Americans" they'd take the whole world down with them.

The last time a murderous tyrant rearmed in defiance of treaty obligations and international resolutions was when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland in the early 1930s. You'd think the French of all people would recognize the danger here (or maybe not, the capitulationist Vichy regime was more popular domestically than the Nazis ever were in Germany). Then, as now, the price of inaction far outweighs the price of action. If you don't believe me pay a visit to Dresden. Or Auschwitz. Or Normandy.

But the French, in their wisdom, are so motivated by reflexive anti-Americanism they would condemn 22 million Iraqis to enslavement in a nightmarish Baathist dictatorship. And they would allow Saddam Hussein to develop the world's worst weapons. Have you asked yourself why hasn't Saddam taken the opposite route? Why not disarm, get the sanctions ended and the oil flowing, and build all the gold palaces he pleases? His actions make clear the extreme lengths he'll go to to get these weapons -- and he's used them in the past. By taking action now we prevent millions of deaths of his target du jour, be it Kurds, Turks, Iranians, Israelis, Kuwaitis, or even Americans (Saddam has a lot of enemies).

But no, the French, who voted for UNSC res 1441, have no intention of enforcing it, and are setting themselves up to tell the world "I told you so" should the slightest thing go wrong. The irony here is I, as most Americans, would like to see the UN (an American-created institution) thrive and prosper. But after a few months, it will be clear the UN burns in the same hell as the League of Nations. Thank the French.


- Bucko - 02-16-2003 05:54 PM

The French don't owe us a damned thing. I just got back from France recently. I experienced no anti-American treatment. People reciprocate in kind -- friendly is as friendly does.

I spent 7 months of my life in Desert Shield and Desert Storm. The stage was set differently than now. We are not the world's police and we don't have all of the answers. Maybe we should listen when the rest of the world is hollering WRONG at us. We need to step back.......


- Thomas - 02-16-2003 06:42 PM

The French government is not attacking the U.S.; it is acting on the last stage available for the French government to make the world see it is relevant. In any event, they happen to be on right side of an issue on this one.

As Bucko says, this Vietnam era vet agrees: police work is not a good idea on the international stage.

Everything you say about Saddamm may be true, but some of it is also true about North Korea, about Pakistan, and about a few other nations. Why don't we play God to the world and start knocking them all off, one by one.

Incidentally, if you treasure the U.N. so much you might want to listen to what the majority of the Security Council said on Friday--we have little worldwide support on this fiasco.


- hotwine - 02-16-2003 07:14 PM

Heads, you win, tails, I lose.....

If the Pres won't tell us what he knows and how he knows it, we won't support him, is that it? Yet if he does tell us enough to convince us all of the wisdom of his actions, he will compromise priceless, irreplaceable methods and sources that have taken years, lives and billion$ to develop.

Sources should never be compromised for temporary advantage.

I don't know what he will do. But I'm reminded of a quote from Marshall Petain from WW I, when asked how he planned to confront an overwhelming enemy force:
"L'audace. L'audace! Toujours l'audace!"

("Always choose the audacious, unexpected course.")

Attack!


- tandkvd - 02-16-2003 07:16 PM

It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they were playing an old news video of Lt.Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration.

There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he said was stunning!

He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?"

Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir."

The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, "Isn't that just a little excessive?"

"No, sir," continued Ollie.

"No? And why not?" the senator asked.

"Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir."

"Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.

"By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered.

"Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?"

"His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.

At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked.

"Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of", Ollie answered.

"And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator.

"Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth."

The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip.



By the way, that senator was Al Gore

Also:

Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners."

However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands, The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released.


Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.

No lets not play the world police. Let us sit back, enjoy our wine and all this terrisom will just dissapear.


- girlperson1 - 02-17-2003 07:18 AM

Ok. But this leaves me with one question: Should I drink wine that was made using bovine blood from an animal that is infected with the mad cow disease, what are the risks to me?


- Kcwhippet - 02-17-2003 07:35 AM

Go ahead and drink up. I doubt you'll find any wines you're going to drink that have been fined with bovine blood. I did some searching and haven't found anything that about any person who's been affected by any wine in a manner that would indicate they've been infected with any malady related to mad cow disease. There have been reports that only nine (out of thousands) French wineries used cow albumen to fine their wines, in violation of the 1997 EU ban. All the wine from those wineries has been seized and absolutely none has reached the market, so there's just none out there on the shelves.

[This message has been edited by Kcwhippet (edited 02-17-2003).]


- Kcwhippet - 02-17-2003 08:34 AM

Here's a reply Robert Parker gave to this question.

"This fining agent was allegedly used by a large coop in the southern Rhone for wines sold in bulk..and this was a number of years ago. Implying that it is stiil in use and likely to be encountered in French wines is both reckless and disgusting. Don't you love politicians! "