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+--- Thread: Cabernet Franc (/thread-19777.html)
- wondersofwine - 11-18-2003
The matter with us people is that we don't get our jollies from arguing every statement made. This isn't a debate society where points are awarded for scoring off another's statement--it's a board for discussing wines and other things that slip in like jazz, teaching elementary school, and pets. Most of us would agree that the Eastern U.S. is not the best place in the world for the Cabernet Sauvignon grape or Sangiovese, etc. But it does seem to do a good to great job with some grapes. I'm not particularly offended by your saying that good Cabernet Franc can be found in the East "believe it or not" (many people may not be familiar with Eastern wines or that they even grow Cabernet Franc grapes). I'm more offended by your continual confrontational tone. It does get tedious as another person posted on another thread.
- Kcwhippet - 11-18-2003
Settle down, dude. Life's too short.
- randery - 11-18-2003
For what its worth, I had a nice meritage this past summer grown, crushed and bottled at a vineyard on Cape Cod in which the dominant grape was CF. Granted I don't have a sophisticated palate but this was a terrific wine, in my opinion. I posted on it in late July. Truro Vineyards 2001 "Triumph".
- Innkeeper - 11-18-2003
http://www.wines.com/ubb2/Forum28/HTML/000047.html
- John Moore - 12-23-2003
YO! YOblaka,
I think these guys above me gave you some great info. I'd like to recommend that you look for Pheonix winery in the Napa valley as they have been making one of the BEST Cab franc wines that I have ever tasted.
Another winery which makes a very special Cab franc bottling is Kahn winery in Santa Barbara. They make a extremely RARE wine that is now a collectable.
Contact me if you are in need of further assistance at my e-mail~ IntWBrokers@yahoo.com
P.S.~ I am a wine broker
- Kcwhippet - 12-24-2003
From what I've seen, that Kahn Cabernet Frank (sic) may be a decent wine, but it's priced out of proportion to its quality. It was made as a tribute to Frank Sinatra and has a different image of him on the label for each vintage, ala Marilyn Merlot. It's a good, not great, wine and I don't believe it warrants a price of $60 a bottle.
- winoweenie - 12-24-2003
Count me in too KC. Any Cab Franc I pay 60 bucks for had better have the label in French. WW
- John Moore - 12-26-2003
Well, KCwhippet I you confuse me. Have you ever tried the Kahn Cab Frank or is this just your view based on the current price.
Winoweenie, I myself would rather see my $60 go into a pocket on this side of the pond.
[This message has been edited by John Moore (edited 12-26-2003).]
- winoweenie - 12-26-2003
John, pockets don't mean squat to me when it comes to my beverage of choice. What's in the bottle and the price determines what I purchase. When Hahn or someone else puts on the show that Warrens' Cabs did at Spurriers' Paris tasting, I'll give them suckers a try. At the present don't know of a bottle of domestic that can give the Argentinians any worries, much less the Frenchies. WW. Without asking you're advertising again aren't you?
- Kcwhippet - 12-26-2003
Well, John, I'm really sorry you're confused, and I fail to see how what I said is confusing. My statement was quite straightforward - Kahn isn't a wine that's rare enough or of a quality that commands a $60 price tag.
- John Moore - 12-30-2003
Well, let's see here Winoweenie you claim that you don't care about where in the world the wine you consume is made RIGHT! Yet in one of your posts(above) you essentially claim any $60 dollar Cab Franc you would buy had better be from France. Have you tasted ALL the Californian Cab Francs made to come to this conclusion? Or, have you been drinking mostly French versions of Cab Franc? By the way its KAHN not Hahn. I also (and I'm sure others too) was wondering about Warren's Cabs and the Spurriers tasting
- John Moore - 12-30-2003
(continued from above)~thing. What's that all about? Also I dissagree with you because I believe that there are prime examples of Cali Cab Francs(inexpensive and otherwise ) that can go toe-to-toe with the Argentinians and French.
Well I await your reply eagerly(rest assured).
Oh! I almost forgot, thanks for asking. NO I am actually NOT advertising.
[This message has been edited by John Moore (edited 12-29-2003).]
[This message has been edited by John Moore (edited 12-29-2003).]
- John Moore - 12-30-2003
KCwhippet, you say from what you've "seen" you think its overpriced. I ask respectfully(once again) Have you ever TASTED the Kahn to come to your conclusion. From what you post I assume not. Did you get your info on Kahn thru wine books, wine encyclopedias, the internet(wine sites), a actual wine critic?
You also said that its not "rare enough or of a quality that commands a $60 price tag."
- John Moore - 12-30-2003
(continued from above)~ Kahn only makes a few hundred cases per year(sounds rare to me how about you?) and I will bet my wallet you will have a hard time trying to find it(unless you visit their website).
- Kcwhippet - 12-30-2003
John,
Why would I have to taste a wine to know it's overpriced? A CA Cab Franc would have to be an exceptional wine from a top winery made by one of California's superstar winemakers, and would have garnered raves from all the wine press and critics to command a $60 price tag. So, no John, I haven't tasted the wine, but if you want to send a bottle, I'll render an opinion. BTW, I have some exceptional Cab Franc from a top winery made by a superstar winemaker that's received rave reviews. They made one barrel (that's 25 cases, so just a wee bit rarer than 240 cases of Cabernet Frank) and sell the wine for $30. I can get that wine easily, as well as any other wine I want.
- winoweenie - 12-30-2003
John I see your knowledge of the Calif wine industry is as wyopic and weak as your reccomendations. Warren Winarskis' Stags Leap Wine Cellars cabernet was chosen by Steve Spurrier to be tasted blind in 1975-76 against all of the 1st and 2nd growths of France. The tasters were all professional wine people or vineyard owners and VOLIA! with all the cards stacked against it the Stags was the hands down numero uno pick. This singlehandedly gave California wines the international recognition that made them a major player all over the world. MNow for the rest of the story, the 1974 Ch. Montelena Chardonnay won the blind tasting against all of the top white Burgandies and Montrachets. Clean Sweep. Some great historical facts about Calif wines I woulld have thot someone in the business should know. WW
- Kcwhippet - 12-30-2003
I agree with you on the Spurrier tasting, WW. That's the event that gave the California wine industry the impetus to compete very favorably against the rest of the Old World. It's also an important piece of information that people serious about wine should be well aware of. Quick, John, who was the winemaker for Ch. Montelena who made that benchmark Chardonnay (no fair looking - this is a closed book test). I'll give you a hint -his first name is Mike.
- John Moore - 12-30-2003
Listen Winoweenie, I am very familiar with the californian wine industry and with the tasting you speak of (believe it or not). I just wanted you to clarify for yabloka and other non-wine geeks.
KCwhippet, you are the man. Why didn't you mention your Cab Franc in your posts then? I'm sure it would have helped our friend Yabloka.
I think that you and winoweenie are in the wrong line of work and should become master sommelier's with the VAST knowledge you seem to posess.
[This message has been edited by John Moore (edited 12-30-2003).]
- winoweenie - 12-30-2003
and he wears a beret. ww and John fer gosh sakes read your own post....you didn't have a clue what the bloomin' blazes I was referring to.
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 12-30-2003).]
- Kcwhippet - 12-30-2003
John, I didn't mention the Novy Family Alder Springs Cabernet Franc specifically because there were only 20 cases available to the public and they're now all gone. What I did mention to yabloka, way back when, was a wine shop local to her/him where she/he could speak with a knowledgeable wine merchant. What I didn't mention to yabloka was something to plug one of the wines in my shop that I couldn't unload otherwise.
BTW, finish the test yet? Who made the Ch. Montelena Chard? Surely, someone has been able to give you the answer by now.