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+--- Thread: Now this might be a good subject - Decanting (/thread-19625.html)
- mrdutton - 02-15-2000
Foodie - I saw a post you made recently in another section of this board about Gwertz. I din't think posting there on the subject of decanting would be appropriate........... So.........here goes:
Decanting has often been recommended to me for any wine older than about 10 years or for younger wines that exhibit sediment build-up on the side of the bottle.
I've been taught that the exception would be for very old, fine wines. In that case, one should stop the pour before the sediment gets a chance to enter the glass (which, it seems, is really kinda like decanting but directly into the glass). My understanding is that you would not want the very old, fine wine to be overly exposed to oxygen before drinking it. Unfortunately I can only go by what I've been told. I've not yet had the pleasure of trying a very old, fine wine. My experience is limited at this point to wines between 15 to 10 years old and younger.
But then that brings up another question. I can understand rapid oxygen exposure in the glass because of the wide opening - and to some extent this is what is wanted to allow the wine to open up, is it not? After all, the wine glasses for drinking Bordeaux and Burgundy have fairly wide openings and bowls which provide a relatively large surface area for exposure to oxygen. However, most of the decanters I've seen have very narrow necks. Would not the narrow neck help reduce exposure to oxygen?
Additonally, if you pour the wine into a glass almost immediately after decanting it into a narrow necked decanter, aren't you limiting its exposure to oxygen in the decanter? It seems to me that one could decant a wine without allowing it to breathe for an excessive amount of time. Decant and drink; at least that way you know you've bypassed the sediment.
Along with decanting comes the question over whether or not one should allow the wine to breath. My personal experience is limited, but I've noticed distinct differences and improvements in taste of most wines I've sampled before and after allowing them to breath. Those I've sampled have been primarily Californian Cabernet Sauvignons in about the 10 to 12 year old category.
Often times, though, I've thought that decanting a wine is just a way of showing-off as a "wine snob". What with the decanter, the candle, the sterling silver funnel (it seems that the holes are not large enough to stop anything unless you've broken the cork into pieces), the decanting cradle and all that, it seems a bit showy. Heck, just pour carefully and slowly; that should prevent the mixing of any sediment with the rest of the wine, should it not?
Comment and discussion are invited and would be greatly appreciated.
- Innkeeper - 02-16-2000
We decant all reds with high shoulders. If it is a current release, we do the glug, glug, glug, bit. If it is an older red we do it very carefully, hoping to catch the sediment if any in the cusp of the shoulder it was designed for. The reason for the younger decanting is aeration. We find that even doing it immediately before serving improves them. Some, like Dolcetto and Barbara, do better with a half hour or more rest after decanting. We don't use a fancy decanter. We have a small collection of "Bicentennial Decanters" that Ocean Spray filled and sold with cranberry juice back in '76. Each has a wide mouth, which makes even the glug, glug easy and neat.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 02-16-2000).]
- Bucko - 02-16-2000
I find Port to be the one wine I consider a must to decant. Older wines that throw a lot of sediment get decanted as well. Depending on how old they are, I may decant and serve immediately.
Bucko
- Thomas - 02-17-2000
This is one of those subjects that will take us a long way; an opinion, I am sure, as numbered as there are wine drinkers.
Dutton, as the wine is poured from one container to another it picks up a great degree of oxygen. I do not think the opening of the decanter matters much after that.
As for which wines to decant: I certainly would not decant a fifty year-old wine for fear the oxygen will wipe it out. I also have stopped decanting younger wines, choosing instead to simply open the bottle, let it sit a few minutes, pour into a glass and swirl frantically. That is a lot of oxygen exposure.
As for port: definitely the one wine that can stand up to decanting and often needs it because of sediment, but you could pour it through something or simply be careful.
Decanting simply no longer appeals to me as a method to help me enjoy wine.
- mrdutton - 02-17-2000
I just read an article at www.stratsplace.com that stongly suggests decanting all vintage ports. The article said that was necessary because the port is very sediment "heavy" and is aged in the bottle. The article suggested a very careful pour because the bottle and the liquid are so dark that it is difficult to see the sediment. There was even a suggestion of using a coffee filter.
Foodie - It seems to me that a wine would recieve the greatest exposure to oxygen in the glass.
When decanting, as you stated, I can undertand the wine's exposure to oxygen only during the pour. And then for a brief time after the pour, the wine will be exposed to some oxygen in the decanter. But the neck size of most decanters would certainly slow- down and almost prohibit any kind of air flow which would allow further exposure to "fresh oxygen." At least it seems that way to me...........
- Thomas - 02-17-2000
The thing is, the oxygen picked up during the agitation of a pour is now in suspension in the liquid, and begins to do its work right away. Surface oxygen takes a little longer to do its work.
- mrdutton - 02-17-2000
Yes, of course. Agitation during a pour would allow for more dissolved oxygen in the wine which would have an affect on the solution.
By the same token, the fancier funnels I've seen have a long slender spout which directs a small diameter flow of wine against the side of the decanter. This results in someting akin to laminar flow in which there is very little agitation; thus, very little oxygen absorbtion during the pour.
That leaves what oxygen there is in the decanter left to do its work on the surface area. Absorbtion through the surface area would, of course, occur, but at a much slower rate.
I guess, if you want to introduce maximum oxygen to the wine, short of shaking it, you'd refrain from using the "fancy" funnel......... and would just allow the wine to "glug, glug, glug" from the bottle and splash onto the bottom of the decanter in an uncontrolled fall from the funnel.
[This message has been edited by mrdutton (edited 02-17-2000).]
- mrdutton - 02-17-2000
Be that as it may, I have to concurr with your bottom line in your most recent post.
Decanting just doesn't seem to be that important.
If you know there is sediment, just pour carefully, or use your lint free linen (hopefully clean) handkerchief as a filter.............
- Jason - 02-17-2000
Decanting Dolcetto... that is a new one on me.
As far as the whole aeration within the decanter, different decanters are used in formal service depending upon the age of the wine.A younger wine would require a larger surface area like those you see on most Reidel decanters. Older would use less area.
Vintage ports are always decanted, but coffee filters take forever and they strip too much out of the wine.I always use a commmon kitchen strainer that just fits in the mouth of the decanter.
You are correct in that decantation is mainly hype. My thought has been why not ditch the candle/ gentle pour thing and just use the strainer funnel on all the wines?
All this careful pouring, drop by drop, and for what?