+- WineBoard (https://www.wines.com/wineboard)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-100.html)
+--- Forum: For the Novice (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Way Too Broad a Topic =D (/thread-19502.html)
Pages:
1
2
- summa - 08-03-2001
Here's my situation. Once long long ago (read a decade) I was offered the opportunity to take over a wine list at a very small restaurant in NY. I proceeded to read Robert Parker Jr., make some blind decisions, and call 5 wine distributors to start coming by. 'Bout a year later, and a thousand wines or so, most plonk of course,(but some Great Ones =D) I up and moved to NC and changed direction.
Now I suddenly find myself in a restaurant again (named Vintner's no less) redoing a wine list dealing with distributors, and finding out how much I've forgotten, how out of date I am, and how little I know. However, I've finally actually started getting to taste again, and it's beginning to come back. So that's why these broad generalisations...lack of recent experience, and a need to lay some groundwork for myself.
So here is the Way Too Broad Question.....
Any Advice???
- Botafogo - 08-04-2001
Call me with your credit card # and address and I'll send you our patented "cellar in a box" complete with descriptions and food reccos.....
Just kidding, but you need to taste, taste and taste some more, in flights organized by style then price and then go with your gut.
Roberto
- summa - 08-04-2001
I'm starting to burto...guess it's the only way. I know that,no short cuts. Well at least it involves wine, which I Love.
The organized flights of similar wines of course is a great idea, which I'd only remembered yesterday, during my first visit from the distributors. (After they brought me the mixed bottles lol)
- Thomas - 08-04-2001
And don't forget that you are in a restaurant; think about the menu and the wine together, and drink a lot of wine at home.
- Innkeeper - 08-04-2001
Remember that the most food frindly wines are pinot noir, gamay (Beaujolais Crus), barbera, cabernet franc, sangiovese, riesling, chenin blanc, and sauvignon blanc (so long as it's from Loire or Kiwiland). If you have steak on the menu you need a couple of cabernet sauvignons, but make sure they are approachable. If you have to have some chardonnay get Maconnaise ones or one or two of the small handful of low or no oak ones from CA. If you have to have a merlot, see if you can glom onto one from the Collio region of Italy or go with a Pomerol or St Emillion. As both Foodie and Roberto will let you know, there is a ton of food friendly stuff coming out of the lesser known regions of Italy. If you have a lot of spicy stuff look at Southern Rhone, California/Australian Syrah/Shiraz.
- summa - 08-04-2001
I've been thinking about wine and food foodie, believe me =D good advice. Also wrote up a little something the waiters could throw in their books to match up wines with our entrees.
Ik Thanks That Really Helped a lot =D, pinot is already becoming a much better seller at the restaurant as by the glass it's (right now) our best red for the food we serve.
Working on a new list as well, which being a restaurant, will be too california heavy I'd guess <sighs>...still need to train the waiters and there's a bit too much turn over right now. Planning on going for zinfandel though, as well as italians, a shiraz and some french rhones. Whites are harder, most want chard, though I'm noticing a trend towards SB, and I'm a big fan of alsace reisling.
The good part is I can already offer over 700 different bottles from our cellar, and the wine list is undergoing a Complete overhaul =), with Many more wines by the glass...even flights. The menu will be as well, as we're getting in a young cordon bleu trained chef who recently worked hand in hand with a true master sommolier...yes I'm intimidated though excited, can't you tell I'm babbling.
So any particular secrets of wonderful wines or wineries you have right now? Looking more for things between 8-15 dollars wholesale right now, as the cellar has the higher end covered better. Actually, what are your personal "favorites" in this price range?
(And just as a side note we Don't have the restaurant markup, as we function as a retail wine store as well and it would be illegal for us to even charge a corkage fee I believe.)
[This message has been edited by summa (edited 08-04-2001).]
- Drew - 08-04-2001
Summa, it would seem that you have the perfect set up to pick wines for your list. Sample wine at the retail side in the price range and type you want to serve and order extra for the restaurant cellar. You could have a changing wine list featuring available QPR wines by the bottle or glass and limited "treasure finds". It would take a little extra effort but I think it would pay off with your wine enjoying customer data base.
Drew
- summa - 08-05-2001
Thanks Drew, setting it up now, already publishing inhouse so the wine list can be flexible [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img].
[This message has been edited by summa (edited 08-06-2001).]
- wondersofwine - 08-06-2001
Where is Vintner's Restaurant? I'm in Fayetteville and would like to visit it if it's in the eastern part of the state. If it's in Charlotte or Asheville area it will have to wait for a trip out that way.
- summa - 08-06-2001
It's in Blowing Rock...the north western part of the state...the High Country, so you'd have to wait for a trip. The fall here is beautiful though [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img].
- RAD - 08-06-2001
Where's everyone's manners?
JUST SET A DATE AND WE'LL ALL BE THERE TO HELP!
RAD
- summa - 08-06-2001
Still settling in here RAD new chef moving in saturday....winelist is under construction
- cpurvis - 08-07-2001
Blowin' Rock is just over the hills from where my parents live...may find you there sometime Summa. cp
- summa - 08-07-2001
Sounds Great ... just warn me [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img] .
- wondersofwine - 08-07-2001
To get a very brief start on the lower end wine recommendations: Bogle Merlot has received about four favorable comments from the wine board (I have yet to try it). It is less than $10 a bottle retail! One of my personal recommendations is the Fetzer Gewurztraminer. It also retails under $10 a bottle and I think comes closer to Alsatian Gewurztraminer than most California products. Gewurz stands up to spicy and acidic foods. (Possibly wih curried chicken or fish with a salsa sauce)? Some of the lower end German Rieslings are very food friendly. How about a Piesporter Michelsberg (the first German wine for which I developed affection). If you read through the Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot threads you will probably find other reasonably priced recommendations. See also the Italian wine category and Cote du Rhone entries. I forgot to second an earlier recommendation for Beaujolais as a food friendly wine. Include a couple Beaujolais choices from designated villages (Julienas, Morgon, etc.). They could be paired with roast chicken or perhaps Cornish hen or salmon dishes.
[This message has been edited by wondersofwine (edited 08-07-2001).]
- barnesy - 08-07-2001
What is the markup on the wine list going to be? Hopefully, having some input, you'll make it a reasonable one. You may want to do a search on some of the other threads for some of our discussions on the markup issue for restuarants.
Barnesy
- summa - 08-07-2001
Thanks for the advice, I have been checking out the other varietal specific threads (and taking notes [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img] ).
I think I may post a seperate thread on each of the varietal boards for suggestions on "lower end" wines. Would you recommend this?
(Drinking Gallo of Sonoma cab right now, impressive, just too tired for notes.)
Getting "serious" Thursday, starting with lower end sauvignon blancs. then working my way through lower end, then moving to others.
As to pricing policy, we are a combination restaurant and wine shop, and we are in North Carolina, so we must sell the wines at the same price...45-50% markup, even in the restaurant (and no corkage fee). Also the wineshop functions as our cellar, so there are already over 700 wines to choose from(additionally the new winelist should offer about 150 wines, with little overlap). Do you consider that "fair enough" as far as pricing? Personally, I'm happy to be working here.
[This message has been edited by summa (edited 08-07-2001).]
- Innkeeper - 08-08-2001
Two times the wholesale price is fair, as is what most restaurants do with food, and food requires much more labor to get it to the table. If you go higher than 2.5, you won't be seeing us on our annual treks through the area.
- wondersofwine - 08-08-2001
You might also want to check out Best Buys thread on this website and the September issue of "Food and Wine" magazine which has an article on affordable wines you can find (under $15 retail I believe). They recommend among others Trimbach Riesling (Alsace), Ravenswood Vintners Blend Zinfandel, Meridian Chardonnay, and a 2000 Beaujolais Village (I don't recall the distributor's name so will leave that for you to look up if you are interested). They also talk about reasonably priced regions (southern Italy, Cote du Rhone and Languedoc, France, Central Coast of California, Chile, etc.) and recommend some producers and distributors that are reliable and widely available.
- RJ - 08-08-2001
Has anyone mentioned Spanish reds to you? There are several beautiful food wines from Rioja and Ribera del Duero especially that are an excellent value, and new and exciting to most American wine drinkers. I have turned several guests in my restaraunt onto these wines in an effort to get them away from the old boring old Merlot, Cabernet, Chardonnay triumverate...