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+--- Thread: Cork vs. Screwcap (/thread-19126.html)
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- infoseeker - 05-24-1999
Without starting WWIII, I was interested in getting opinions from the experts on the cork versus the screw cap. I understand the "Perception" of a screw cap, that only cheap wines would offer "screw caps" and the more prestigious wines wouldn't think of it. I have done some research and have found that there is significant reasons why a winery should use a cork, but there is also the fact that in 1997 Harvey Steiman of THE WINE SPECTATOR reported that 4.7 percent of the wines were contaminated by corkiness (TCA), and others such as Craig Goldwyn, Lyn Farmer and Bill Stephens have also reported contaminated in wines submitted for review. I have gotten this information off of your web site by looking through the information on the history of wines. I am hearing that a new trend may be starting. Can anyone forward their comments to me. Do others see a new trend beginning? I am trying to reach the Cork Quality Council (CQC) to get their opinion, but would love anyone else's. I am working on an assignment for a class project.
- Randy Caparoso - 05-24-1999
Well, when it comes to "experts" you'll find that there are all kinds. Certainly, the CQC, producers, distributors, marketers, retailers, restaurateurs, and (can't forget them!) journalists will all have their opinions when it comes to the cork vs. screw cap question. But here's what I think is kind of a consensus:
1. Most of us wish we could continue to use natural cork as bottle closures. Like wine itself, cork is a completely natural product, and it's worked quite well over a long time (although certainly not forever) as a great way to keep oxygen out of bottles and at the same time express all the aesthetics associated with this unique product of nature.
2. Although the CQC may not be in complete agreement, there appears to be substantial amount of evidence that contaminated natural corks are the direct cause of some 5% of wines (it was probably up to 10% 10-15 years ago) exhibiting the symptoms of "corkiness" (i.e. tasting more like wet cardboard than fresh fruit derived wine).
3. Whether its 5%, 1%, or 10%, it would be sheer stupidity to continue to bottle wines under such detrimental circumstances. So as we are already seeing, more and more producers are gravitating towards artificial closures which perform the same function of cork, but of course are much cleaner.
4. So far, consumer acceptance of wines in artificial corks has been quite positive (that is, they don't seem to care!). However, virtually all the wines merchandised with these closures represent the lower priced (under $14 average retail) end of the industry. There have been very few, isolated exceptions (such as, say, Erath's "Reserve" Pinot Noirs) put out by producers who, frankly, don't give a damn about what people think about plastic... they just want clean wine!
5. As for the possibility of upper tier, prestige wines -- like Ridge Monte Bello, Robert Mondavi Reserve, Chateau Lafite-Rothschild, Gaja Barbaresco, etc. -- ever being bottle by anything but 100% natural, high quality cork, I wouldn't hold my breath. There's something almost universally sacrilegious about the idea of Lafite in, say, a bright purple plastic stopper.
6. By the same token, there is something seriously wrong with the idea of a mere "screwcap" for fine wine. No one (that I know of) is moving towards that because it will probably never be accepted by consumers.
But think about this: Invariably someone will come up with something which is completely revolutionary and just as effective as natural cork for the stopping of oxygen in bottles. This something will probably be more aesthetically pleasing than both artificial corks and screw caps since it will neither offend anyone's sensibilities nor "pretend" to be a cork.
My own guess is that it will involve another form of natural material -- perhaps a metal or alloy -- which will perform the practical function of preventing oxidation before, during and even after dispensing, and it will also be designed to be completely unique to wine. It will also probably be a little pricey, but very few will object since it will be a lot better than anything used before. I had this discussion with winemaker Ken Wright in Oregon recently. Naturally, I told him that I hope they call it the "Cap-Aroso."
But think about it. It might take a few years, but it's bound to happen. We can send objects to other planets, after all. Surely can we not eventually come up with something new for the packaging of wine that is not only full-proof, not only a thing of beauty, but also expressive of the ingenuity of man working hand in hand with nature?
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 05-24-99).]
- Thomas - 05-25-1999
I am afraid the cork/screwcap debate is just another example of inertia and/or the human resistance to change. There really isn't a technical argument against it.
Pharmaceuticals used cork stoppers decades before the wine industry in Europe was willing to make the switch from wax, olive oil and whatever, claiming the cork was no better a solution, and of course, not traditional.
Synthetic stoppers do not look like cork, unless you think cork comes in purple, blue, green and pink, and they aren't as flexible as cork, and no one I know sniffs them after opening a bottle, so what purpose do they really serve?
When you look at the matter objectively, the screwcap is every bit as good as the "natural" cork in preventing oxygen from entering the bottle, probably even better than cork, which does allow some exhange of air.
I vote for the switch to screw caps. The switch would have the added attraction of wooing those who still see wine drinking as an elite endeavor. Perhaps the ease of opening a bottle would be cause for opening more of them.
- Randy Caparoso - 05-26-1999
Well, foodie, I think there's a good reason why producers aren't going to screwcaps. It would destroy the unique quality about wine! I don't even think this has anything to do with snobbery (since the last thing we all need is for wine to remain unapproachable).
No, I think what we need is something way beyond corks and way beyond screwcaps. If I knew exactly what, I'd tell you. But whatever it is, it has to be something completely unique to wine to accomplish what we need for it to do, which is to stop up a bottle and preserve the integrity of the product at the same time.
- Thomas - 05-26-1999
We are probably straying into a topic for the rants section, but let me say this...please...
"destroy the unique quality of wine"
I don't see how a screwcap could destroy anything about wine, except its image, an image accepted by only about 10 or 15 percent of the adult population in America.
If we can keep the quality up (screwcaps can do that) and if we can make the product accessible, thereby increasing sales potential, what's wrong with that?
- Jason - 05-27-1999
Is it just me? I think Randy and Foodie should just set a date, and go about beating the snot out of eachother. I want the PPV rights.
- Randy Caparoso - 05-28-1999
Well, but there you have it. But rather than screwcaps vs. corks, it's screwcaps vs. "something else" (since I'm not for anything already in use). Does this give you the info (or ammo) that you sought, infoseeker?
- n144mann - 05-28-1999
I don't know Jason, I was rather enjoying the banter. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
- Thomas - 05-28-1999
So Jason, are you one of those nonconfrontational wine drinkers?
Randy, let's don't let Jason shame us into soft-speak. You know, we have agreed on many subjects before, as stridently as we disagree on a few. No grudge held here, especially since I know you will come around to my way of thinking one day (just kidding).
- Randy Caparoso - 05-28-1999
I'm sure you'll agree that the "one day" that may happen will actually be out of both our hands, Foodie. I tend to believe things when I see it, and if the industry moves to one closure or another, I'll definitely be a believer.
I'll admit, quite manfully, that once or twice over the past two decades I've been wrong. Ten or so years ago, for instance, I wrote a story in a hotel & restaurant publication that consumers are definitely headed towards lighter, more food-variable wines like Cabernet Franc, Blue Franc, Grenache blends, etc., and away from heavy, unwieldy things like Cabernet Sauvignon and super-ripe Zinfandels. Talk about mud in the eye!
- Thomas - 05-29-1999
Randy,
You weren't wrong, just ten years ahead. I see evidence of the shift toward lighter reds.
- Randy Caparoso - 05-29-1999
Well, time will definitely tell!
- Jerry D Mead - 05-30-1999
I'm for compromise...let's start bottling wines that are meant to be consumed within 15 minutes of bottling (White Zins, fresh Rieslings, Gewurz and other picnic wines) with screw caps to get folks used to them...and then lets see what happens.
Some giant like Sutter Home could even floor stack cork finished and screw cap versions side by side and offer "Traditional" and "Convenience" packaging to see which people purchased.
And the main reason I would like to see some wines packaged with screwcap closures is so that restaurateurs could appropriately charge us "screwage"!
Curmy
- Randy Caparoso - 05-30-1999
Okay, Curm, but it would still have to be "fancy" screwcap (with a little twist?). Otherwise, I don't see producers embracing them.
And think about this: in the restaurant business, we've been hard at work "upgrading" people into varietals and premium wines -- slowly but surely weaning folks away from boxes and jugs -- over the past two decades. Do you really think most of us would welcome a "return" to screwcaps? Presenting such wines at the table would be, well, a tough thing to swallow, to say the least.
Now I realize that you're talking about grocery store stacks. Traditionally, there have always been products (coolers, Riunite, Thunderbird, White Grenache etc.) which do not cross from retail to on-premise sales. Screw'em, I say. But we're still left with the problem of corkiness with the bulk of the market's wines. And what I'm trying to say is that in our line of business (and restaurant sales ARE important!), we still like the mystery, or "integrity" as I put it earlier, of products with an unusual closure. If true corks aren't doing the job, we need something else!
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 05-30-99).]
- Jerry D Mead - 05-31-1999
I was being a little (or lot) cutesy, but I do think wines like Sutter Home White Zin might even increase sales if available also in screwcap. Maybe they could sell the same wine in supermarkets with screwcap...and call it some fancy designation with a cork closure for restaurants?...which still doesns't solve the restaurant corky problem, I know. I'm wondering a little here...
I have to tell you that one of my funniest wine experiences ever (and where I first came up with the "screwage" term) was at a snooty Orange County, CA restaurant called Chanticleer. Italian Swiss Colony (then part of Heublein...and sister brand to Inglenook) was releasing its first varietal wines and I was being given an exclusive.
Now I was a semi-regular there (and Robert Balzer was a regular)so they were used to us coming in with vintners...even though this was 20-25 years ago.
A snooty gay waiter named Sean was waiting on us and you should have seen (first) the look on his face when he saw WHAT he was being asked to serve, and (then) easpecially the look when he unscrewed the first cap and so obviously did not know what to do with it. He made a move as if to present it...realized that didn't make sense...started to lay it on the table...didn't like that idea either...looked at the ice bucket as if to drrop it in there...I think he finally stuck it in his pocket before serving the taste (which was mostly useless since the wine couldn't have been corky). That's when I suggested to the winery p.r. guy that it would be interesting to see if they charged him "screwage"!
JDM
- Thomas - 06-01-1999
As I said earlier on, when cork was first suggested for wine bottles there were many traditionalists who poo-pooed the idea.
People do get set in their linear ways.
- Randy Caparoso - 06-01-1999
Well, when I think about it, it would be easier to have my people walk around with bottle openers rather than corkscrews. But good grief, what next -- 12 oz. six packs?
- Thomas - 06-02-1999
Sells a lot of beer, or at least it used to.
My wife is on your side, Randy. Me, all I want is a good bottle of wine. I do not need the cork, the ambience, the mystique, the sniffing, the waiter for that matter -- just a good bottle of wine to go with my meal.
The packaging, to me, is incidental. But I know it is not incidental to the general consuming public, which is why I believe it should be as user friendly (hate that term) as possible.
- Paul Wagner - 06-02-1999
Curmy, Randy, et al:
I once ran the CQC, so let me share a little of what I know about all of this.
#1. For short term storage, screw caps seem to work as well as corks. There is evidence that synthetic corks may increase the oxidation of the wine (research done by Geisenheim in Germany)
#2. Jerry suggestion, to stack screw cap and cork finished wine side by side, has already been done in Australia, complete with millions of $ of ads. The result? People bought the cork finished wine, and sales of the screw cap wine lagged far, far behind.
#3. Randy has suggested that there may be a new and innovative approach that make the debate moot. This may be true, but not from the direction that he thinks. There was an EU consortium inlcuding Burklin- Wolf and Ohlinger in Germany, Oller in Spain, and Juvenal Ferreire da Silva in Portugal that came up with a new way of processing natural corks. The claim (supported by substantail research and documentation at a the Technical Ag lab in Germany) is that the process not only eliminates the potential for further taint in already tainted corks, but also removes more than 90% of the existing problem in tainted corks. The technology is not overly complicated, and the group expects to have the first commercially available products on the market within the year.
Paul Wagner
- Randy Caparoso - 06-03-1999
Thanks for your contribution, Paul! For now, I'm sure everyone will welcome improved natural corks. We'll keep our fingers crossed. The closure that I was speculating about, however, is something totally futuristic. In other words, it doesn't exist anywhere (as far as I know) except in my eternally optimistic mind. Call it twisted, but it's what I imagine they might be using in space crafts a few hundred years from now!