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+--- Thread: Similarities in taste? (/thread-18894.html)
- bskough - 03-02-2010
Thanks again for all your responses to my previous post. I really appreciate all your expertise and that you're willing to share it with a noob like me.
I've found that my favorite varietal, by far, is Petite Sirah. I absolutely can't get enough of it (The 2006 David Fulton is to die for!!!). Anyway, I also like zin and some shiraz/Syrahs are good too. I have found that I don't really care for Pinot Noir much and Cab Sav doesn't really do it for me either (although I've had one from Sequum that I enjoyed and the 2004 Silver Oak last weekend was good as well). I'm so-so on Merlots and Malbecs and haven't really had enough of the other reds to know too much.
On the white side of life I don't really care for them. I've had some chardonnay that is okay and I've enjoyed a riesling or two. I had one Pinot Gris I liked and white zin is okay.
I've been told by a local sommelier that I like bold, fruity wines. That makes sense to me. So my question is, are the three that I mention specifcally (Petit, Zin, and Syrah) on one end of the taste spectrum and Pinot Noirs and Cab Savs on the other? Is there really such a spectrum. I'm kind of hoping so because that will be easier for me to process all this. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
I also had a question about tannins. What is that and does it show up in a wine's flavor profile? I've been told that Petit Sirah has firm tannins. So I repeat that to some of my friends who don't have an idea of what I'm talking about so I can sound smart. hahahaha.
Again, I really apprecaite each of you taking your time to share your wisdom with me.
- newsguy - 03-02-2010
speaking in general terms, yes, petite sirah, syrah and zinfandel are on the heavier, bigger and bolder end of the flavor/body spectrum, while pinot noir tends to be on the lighter side. cabernet sauvignon tends to be on the bigger end, as well. but there are no absolutes, as there can be monstrously large pinot noirs and lighter elegant zins and cabs. and if you like syrah, you should try shiraz from australia, which is the same grape.
as for tannins, again speaking generally, yes, petite sirah tends to be a more tannic wine. tannins don't appear in the flavor profile per se. rather, they appear as a tactile sensation on the tongue. lighter tannins are sometimes said to give the wine a little "grip" in the mouth; heavier and sharper tannins build up on the tongue and can completely cut off the taste of a wine after a short time. when a wine has little or no tannin (sometimes because they have dissipated with age), the wine is often described as having a velvety or silky body.
as your wine journey continues, don't forget to retaste grape varietals down that road that you might not have cared for in the beginning. palates evolve and tastes change over time.
welcome to our passion.
- newsguy - 03-02-2010
speaking in general terms, yes, petite sirah, syrah and zinfandel are on the heavier, bigger and bolder end of the flavor/body spectrum, while pinot noir tends to be on the lighter side. cabernet sauvignon tends to be on the bigger end, as well. but there are no absolutes, as there can be monstrously large pinot noirs and lighter elegant zins and cabs. and if you like syrah, you should try shiraz from australia, which is the same grape.
as for tannins, again speaking generally, yes, petite sirah tends to be a more tannic wine. tannins don't appear in the flavor profile per se. rather, they appear as a tactile sensation on the tongue. lighter tannins are sometimes said to give the wine a little "grip" in the mouth; heavier and sharper tannins build up on the tongue and can completely cut off the taste of a wine after a short time. when a wine has little or no tannin (sometimes because they have dissipated with age), the wine is often described as having a velvety or silky body.
as your wine journey continues, don't forget to retaste grape varietals down that road that you might not have cared for in the beginning. palates evolve and tastes change over time.
welcome to our passion.
- TheEngineer - 03-02-2010
BSK,
You've certainly found your areas of preference, which seems to be BIG wines. I like being beaten up by the occasional Petite Syrah as well and you can find good ones in Stags' Leap (aroudn $40) and in Concannon (around $10).
Like Newsie said, try some austrailian Shirazs, very ripe and accessible immediately. Also you can try a few southern French wines like Bandol or spanish wines from Bierzo or Jumilla and these areas will have big wines. Also perhaps a more modern Chateauneuf du pape would also fit the bill. Have fun and welcome again to our insanity!
- bskough - 03-02-2010
I have had a couple Shirazes (that can't be right) and I typically enjoy them. I was learning last weekend about how the difference in the heat from Australia affects the grape and makes some subtle taste differences between that and Syrah. It was quite interesting.
Thank you for your posts gentlemen. I'm kind of a linear thinker and LOVE creating rankings of things. So if you all wouldn't mind I'll take a stab at this and please correct me as needed.
On one end of the bold taste spectrum you have Petit Sirah, Syrah, Zin, and Cab Sav. On the other end is Pinot Noir. So Malbec and Merlot is somewhere in the middle? When I use the word bold I guess I'm referring to heavy, fruity tastes. Am I on the right track here?
Thanks again gentlemen (and ladies if any of you are participating).
- Thomas - 03-02-2010
bskough,
Don't know where you live, but you seem like a great candidate for a brief wine class. I say a brief class because all you need are some basics--the rest is in your palate.
I'm glad newsguy posted that tannin offers not a taste but a tactile sensation, because that's what it does. Young, strong tannin can seem astringent--older, aged tannin doesn't necessarily dissipate in the wine (although it can), it changes as it melds with other components and chemical chains.
Tannin is found naturally on grape skins and in the seeds. It's the same kind of tannin that you can experience when drinking black tea. It can also be introduced into wine from the oak, which also contains tannin.
Powdered tannin can be added to wines that don't have enough natural content and the winemaker wants more "grip."
Tannins are also found in coffee and chocolate--think bitter chocolate of low sugar content. It's why some wines can pair with chocolate, especially wines that have a certain fruity profile.
Finally, the perception of tannin in wine can work well with some high protein foods and it can wreak havoc with others. Only practice makes it known, so keep practicing--but do think about taking a class.
Oh, really finally, you won't get much tannin from white wine because red wine is fermented on the skins--to gather up the tannin and color--white wine is fermented as juice and so tannin is not as prevalent.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 03-02-2010).]
- VouvrayHead - 03-02-2010
Everyone has been giving great info.
You definitely like big, fruit-driven wines.
Some things I'd recommend without repeating others:
-Be open to liking different grapes. There are absolutely going to be wines you like from other grapes. You currently like a style, which can be enforced on very different grapes, as Newsguy pointed out.
-Try a Pinotage from South Africa, a Primitivo from Southern Italy, and an Ripasso from Northern Italy when you get a chance.
-As you noticed, we're putting Cab on the "big" side, yet it seems very different from Petite Sirah, Syrah and Zin. That's because while it's often a very intense wine that can handle a lot of oak and high alcohol like those other wines, it has less in common as far as what one might call a typical flavor profile with the others than they do with each other (Although Syrah in many of its forms is also something of an outlier among that trio). This is one reason why you'll find trying to make lists and hierarchies a bit frustrating: There are A LOT of variables.
-Be prepared for your preferences to change, but always pay most attention to what you think, not what seems like the "right" thing to think.
-Keep an open mind with whites! There's a massive variety of them out there, though I feel that California as a whole is not currently as good at them as it is at reds.
- winophite - 03-06-2010
You know, the doctor says to add fiber to the diet...I think I'll have a bottle of an oakey cab today. Tannins are kinda like fiber right [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
- winoweenie - 03-06-2010
You know WP now that you bring it up think I mite open a red me-very-own-self! WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]