+- WineBoard (https://www.wines.com/wineboard)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-100.html)
+--- Forum: For the Novice (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: How Wines Are Kept Before Purchase (/thread-18501.html)
- Redwolf - 12-12-2002
Hey all, I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum as I've been enjoying wines more and more recently, so I've been studying and looking around. I’ve noticed a lot of information on how to keep wines regarding temperature, light, etc., so here's my quandary:
Walking through a particular market I notice a lot of high dollar wines - $50-80 bottles (My novice definition of “high dollar†wine,) sitting out in the middle of the store neatly arranged in wood boxes. Considering advice on keeping wines, how can it be a good thing to leave these wines in the middle of the store exposed to light & most likely undesirable temperatures, THEN paying $50-80 dollars for it??
Now I ask this because I'm a big enough beer and cigar connoisseur to know that I’m not going to pay a lot of money for a beer that’s been exposed to high temperature and light, or a cigar that has rested outside a humidor for who knows how long. So why would one pay that much for a bottle of wine that has sat in undesirable conditions? If wines should be preferably kept in wine cellar type conditions, why would you buy one of the aforementioned wines at all? Are wines not really as sensitive to heat and light as some people would like you to believe? On the other side of that coin, I’m not expecting all wine resellers to build a wine cellar in their establishment, so where’s the middle ground? Is there a middle ground, or is my argument moot for some other factor I’m not realizing? This has really got me thinking, and I’m dying to hear opinions on the subject.
Greatly Appreciative,
Redwolf
- Innkeeper - 12-13-2002
Hi Redwolf, welcome to the Wine Board, and thank you for your profound post. You have touched on one of those "you really don't want to know" areas. It is the reason I would not even think about paying that much for wine. If you pay $15 and it has been damaged before you got it, you can throw it away without a great loss.
If you thought what you saw in store was bad, consider the following. Visit Napa Valley in the summertime, and I can almost guarantee that at at least one winery and probably more you will find cases of very expensive wine awaiting shipment outside in 90 degree sun.
Only a tiny percentage of imported wine comes by plane or refrigerated ship. All the rest comes in plain ole cannisters. That coming from Europe and going to the Left Coast goes through the Panama Canal. That coming from Oz and going to the East Coast goes through the Panama Canal. Every been to Panama? It's damn hot all the time.
- winoweenie - 12-13-2002
Very good question Redski ole bean. You've partially answered it yourself...Wines are hardier than we're led to believe. Most wine and grocer stores I've been in keep their temps in the low 70s. Here in the desert airconditioning is mandatory, like reading Buckos' tasting notes tongue-in-cheek. Prolonged exposure to light is bad. I have a floor lamp at the head of my cellar and use flashlights to find particular bottles. Extreme heat is another matter. If you leave a bottle of wine in your car here in August with the windows up the temp will bake the bottle in under an hour. As long as the wine is a current release, stored inside (not in the window), and bought from a reputable store, you shouldn't have any problem with your purchase. Having said all this, I confess that I pickup my wine the day it gets to my local pusher and take it to the box immediately. WW
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 12-13-2002).]
- Drew - 12-13-2002
Redwolf, don't believe any of that stuff WW is feeding you. He lives in a broken down '77 Chevy Station Wagon next to a cave down by the river. The only way he got that flashlight was by frightening some campers while in a drunken rage. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
Drew
- wondersofwine - 12-13-2002
I don't have ideal storage conditions at home. The temperature usually is from 68 to 72 degrees and there is some exposure to light. I hope to buy a proper storage unit next spring. However, I buy most of my wine from a wine shop that is unusual in having a temperature controlled warehouse. It's cool enough that they have smocklike overcoats to lend customers while they are browsing through the wines. Occasionally I buy inexpensive wines from the grocery store where I assume they have not been lingering on the shelf for too long.
- hotwine - 12-13-2002
Red, I think you'll find that most reputable wineshops are chilled. They might not be 55-57F, which is ideal for storage and ageing, because that would probably be uncomfortable for most shoppers who want to browse the racks; but their temps WILL be in the low 60's, as a compromise with comfort. And their lighting will be low and indirect, rather than bright and focused directly on the shelves. But it's rare to see ideal conditions in supermarket wine sections. There, management depends on turnover to keep the wines fresh, figuring that less than ideal conditons can be tolerated long enough to move inventory out the door. I rarely buy wines in supermarkets because it's impossible to know how long a bottle has stood on a shelf under those less-than-optimum conditions. I much prefer to patronize real, no-kidding wineshops, where the shopkeepers are demonstrating that they're trying to be good stewards of the little treasures that have been entrusted to their care.
- Kcwhippet - 12-13-2002
Our shop is much as hotwine describes. We keep the temp at 65 year round in the shop, and the back room storage is kept at 60. The lighting in the shop is a bit subdued, and no wine is kept near the front by the window. The back room lights only go on when we need to drag more wine out front. Also, we have a fast enough turnover that most wines don't stay on the shelves more than two to three weeks anyway. The very high end wines are mostly kept in back except for a few display bottles. So, the owner is very much aware of what it takes to keep the wines happy and tries very hard to make sure they stay that way. That said, it sure is a pain when a customer comes back to the shop in the middle of the summer with bottles that are leaking and have the corks pushed up, accusing us of selling damaged goods. We know where the bottles have been, and try to educate our customers on how to treat them as they're leaving the shop, though too many don't seem to want to listen. We had one lady who came back this past summer with a case each of Miner Family and Signorello Chards she bought for her daughter's wedding, went to her hairdresser for a cut and perm, and then grocery shopping before taking the wine home. A very expensive lesson.
[This message has been edited by Kcwhippet (edited 12-13-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Kcwhippet (edited 12-13-2002).]
- Bucko - 12-13-2002
Drew, he swiped that flashlight so that he can read my tastings notes while he hunts for his teeth in the back seat.
Seriously, wine is not as fragile as some people would like for us to believe. Extremes of temperature and light can and will damage wine. C.S. Ough, Professor Emeritus at U.C. Davis, showed that heat is far more damaging to wine than cold. In fact, he showed that freezing a wine has little effect on its taste.
Heat is a different matter. His studies confirmed that temperatures of 40° centigrade (104° F) can ruin a wine in a matter of days. Prolonged storage of wines above 25° centigrade (77° F) can be detrimental.
Bright light can also be deleterious to wine, causing vegetal flavors to occur over time by one study. While harmless, excess light can also cause hazing of wine due to copper instability.
I have never seen a wine shop that keeps wines for prolonged periods above 77 degrees. The harm is done to wine before it arrives at the shop, or after it leaves the shop..........
- Botafogo - 12-13-2002
On the fragility tip:
Wine Scribe Dan Berger once bought two bottles each of three very highly regarded California cabernets, put one of each in his cellar and one of each in the trunk of his car for THREE MONTHS in the hottest summer in years in Sonoma. Then in September he let the car wines sit for a week with the cellar wines and then took them to the Vintner's Club for a blind tasting. The overwhelming favorites were the "tenderized" versions from the trunk of the car....
His conclusion in his column was that Pinot Noir is delicate but the prevailing style of Cabernet needs some tough love.
Roberto
- MontereyRick - 12-13-2002
I'm glad to hear these wines are more hearty and not as fragile as one would think.
I'm less inclined to spend money on a temperature controlled unit for my basement/cellar as temps are pretty mild in my area. We don't even have air conditioning in the house, nor do multimillion dollar homes in the area.
- Redwolf - 12-13-2002
Awesome. Thank you all for your responses, opinions and fact! It makes me feel a little better about purchasing average wines at a grocery store, and when I want to buy an expensive wine without regret, I'm better off finding a store with appropriate chilled storage.
As I mentioned in my initial post, I've enjoyed different styles of beers for many years and now I'm very much enjoying wines. My first two that I've greatly enjoyed have been an Ecco Domani '98 Cabernet Sauvignon, and a Rosemount Estate '00 Merlot, two very different yet excellent tasting wines. The Ecco Domani is earthy and full of flavor, and the Rosemount is refreshing. I can’t wait to try others in the future as I can afford them. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
Redwolf
- Thomas - 12-14-2002
Here's one for you: A recent shipment of wine from France to is-wine was stopped by Customs for a random security check. Customs kept the container for about a week--in the dead of our NY winter, during a period of deep cold.
When we got the wine, we were about ready to apply for the insurance we had taken out on the shipment. (By the way, Customs billed us $500 for their random inspection and potential ruin of our wine--FREEDOM!)
Anyway, we decided to let the wine rest, come to drinking temperature, and then taste them. Except for tartrate precipitation, which happens when wine is exposed to chilling cold for long periods, every wine was in fine shape.
In the shop, we are at 65 to 68 degrees. But keep in mind, wines in the shop do not stay for very long. And those green bottles are also a shield--to some extent--against ultra-violet light. In addition, is-wine carries few wines at exorbitant prices; we serve wine consumers, not wine collectors.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 12-14-2002).]