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+--- Thread: Do I have no nose for nose? (/thread-18372.html)
- quijote - 02-09-2003
Hi Everyone--I've appreciated all of the help you've given me over the past week.
Tonight I did the "white wine" section of the Andrea Immer grape varietal comparison. In general, I agree with much of what she says and with what other sources I've looked at (WS, stratsplace.com, etc.) have to say about the wines I tasted, but I find it strange that I seem to have detected aromas and flavors that none of the more established sources mention.
Is this simply inevitable due to descriptive subjectivity? Or do I have no nose for nose?
Specifically, when I sniffed a fairly average wine--Lindemans Bin 65 2001 Chardonnay--I picked up hints of cloves, cardamom, and other exotic spices. But none of the sources even went in that direction! I do eat a lot of South Asian and Middle Eastern foods, so maybe I'm just more prone to think along those terms. But has anyone else had a similar experience of detecting something that, to others, wasn't even in the picture?
- Innkeeper - 02-09-2003
Could be bits and pieces of the oak barrel. Excuse me, toasted oak sawdust.
- winoweenie - 02-09-2003
Hi Quijote. Being the resident idiot on SWs' I'm not here to expound on your post but to point out to IK that you were talking about Lindemans bin 65, an Aussie wine I'm sure, and he starts on aok chips etc.... From the posts I've read IK you've always pimped the Aussies as " unwooded "! Did I mis-interpet sumzing in the transaction? WW (giggle-snort)
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 02-09-2003).]
- Thomas - 02-09-2003
ww, I am losing the ability to decipher your posts...if I ever had the ability to do it...
quijote, subjectivity certainly plays a role in how we perceive aroma and taste. Experience plays a role too--for instance, if someone has never smelled or tasted quince or a particular exotic spice, it would be hard for he or she to agree with a wine description that includes them, but there might be a spice or product that is similar and that would come to mind instead. Also, wines include so many components and release so many esters that our memories are often taxed to come up with a proper proximity of other products--and that makes for all the differences of opinion in the wine world in general, and on this Web site in particular.
Keep working at it. One day you will feel secure in your judgment.
- quijote - 02-09-2003
I tried posting a response to this thread, but the response appeared under the "Super Tuscans" thread instead. Weird!
Anyway, thanks to all for the dialogue. I'm having fun trying to navigate the aromas and tastes. And I'm really getting into the experience of fragrance! I have not been much of a white wine drinker, but I'm really enjoying the possibilities that have recently been opened up to me in that category. (And never again will I use the Chardonnay served at airports as my benchmark for that libation....)
- Innkeeper - 02-09-2003
Ask for Pinot Grigio next time. Not that that is a perfect answer, but in places like airports, it's usually the only alternative. From reviewing this board, you know that there is a world of white wine alternatives that you can find in your retailer or wine savy restaurants.
- winoweenie - 02-09-2003
Foodie-kins... youse lost me. The post was about a Lindemans Chard which the poster said he smelled a bunch of exotic spices which, even I have on the few occassions I've enjoyed SWs' have found, BUT IK brought out his Oak Chip Tirade. Don't know what oak chips have to do with an UNWOODED Oz SW!!! Maybe SB sees signs of senility that I missed [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img] ww
- Thomas - 02-09-2003
My dear ww, I was kidding youse, as usual; you are such an easy target...
quijote, I promise, if you go back to the Super Tuscan forum I posted a response that will enlighten you, I think--I hope--maybe?
- quijote - 02-09-2003
On the Lindemans Chard, the back label mentions "subtle oak"--so it's not supposed to be an "oak bomb," but more oak-perfumed?
It is possible that what I was smelling was oak, but to be honest I cannot say at this point. I guess I'll have to buy more chardonnay and find out!
I wonder if "oakiness" can mean different aromas and flavors from wine to wine? For example, a clove aroma in the Lindemans versus a woody scent in another wine? And, I guess, "toasted" in yet another....
Is "oaky" usually always the same?
[This message has been edited by quijote (edited 02-09-2003).]
- Innkeeper - 02-10-2003
When oak hits you inbetween the eyes, the wine is overoaked. This can happen in all wines, but occurs more frequently in whites. Backing down, if you taste the oak first, the wine is overoaked. That is what I find in the Bin#65. When oak is used judiciously the taste comes after the fruit and acid, and can provide flavors ranging from vanilla, to butter, to toast. I don't like any of these in a white wine, especially with food. If I acquire one without asking as in a gift or in a shipment from a wine club, I look for an opportunity the quaff it without food.
- Thomas - 02-10-2003
And we should note what IK referred to earlier--teabag oak. For those who do not know, oak is expensive and it takes time for wine to age in oak barrels, so some enterprising wine producers have discovered a product called oak chips or oak sand or whatever. Put simply, it is shaved or powedered oak, placed into a large teabag-like package and dipped into a vat of wine to impart oak flavoring. Fast food, fast oak, fast production method, fast money.
- wondersofwine - 02-10-2003
quijote, I more often detect clove, pepper or cardamon scents in red wines such as shiraz, or burgundies. However, that is not to say that they were not present in the Lindeman's chardonnay. To some extent the descriptors are subjective and also, some people have a more sensitive sense of smell (to be redundant). My mother can pick up smells (on people or in the household, etc.--she isn't into wines in a major way) that I can't because of her ultrasensitive nose.
- dananne - 02-10-2003
I also believe that some of the labeling of aromas and tastes relates to one's experience tablet and one's vocabulary. What I mean is that someone who has no experience with, say, red currants would be hard pressed to ID it as such. Also, if someone had, for example, smelled a jasmine perfume, but not had the scent identified would be familiar with the smell, but unable to ID it as jasmine. I think that's why oaky wines (especially chardonnays) have gotten popular in this country -- most people have the ability to ID oak-associated scents and tastes, like vanilla, caramel, etc.
My wife and I get different things all the time. On another thread today, 1999 Steel pinot noir TNs were posted. I love the wine, and I get cherry cola on the nose. My wife gets black cherry and mocha. Is one of us wrong? Why does my wife get mocha and I completely miss it? Could it be because she's a coffee drinker and I've never had a cup in my life, making me ill-qualified to ID mocha?
Just some thoughts to consider [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- wondersofwine - 02-10-2003
dananne, Your wife's right because I got black cherries and mocha too! Just kidding!
I haven't had cassis in a long time, but I did buy some black currant tea just to refresh my memory of the black currant smell. I also bought gooseberry jam so I could be alert to gooseberry in sauvignon blanc wines. When describing floral scents I have to use flowers with which I have some familiarity such as honeysuckle, violets, roses, lilies. Sue Courtney, a Kiwi (New Zealander) on another wine forum suggests
sniffing everyday things around you to increase your descriptive vocabulary.
- quijote - 02-10-2003
Innkeeper or Anyone Else--I probably ought to post this in the Chard Thread, but since we're talking about this....
What would be a good, easily-acquired Chard to try that's not oaky, and has the dynamic of flavors/aromas you describe (vanilla, etc. first, and oka later if at all)? I still have some of the Bin 65, so I'd like to be able to compare and taste the difference and see why/if the 65 is oaky to me.
- Innkeeper - 02-10-2003
The easiest one to find throughout the country, even though it is a mouthful, is Cave De Lugny, "Les Charmes", Macon Lugny, Chardonnay. It costs a buck or two more than the Bin#65.