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+--- Thread: Aging wine (/thread-17847.html)
- cd4814 - 07-12-2000
Some of the wines I have purchased have remarks on the bottle stating that the wine would age gracefully. Never having the inclination to collect wines this has not been an issue. Now, I would like to start collecting. How long should one age a wine?
I mostly drink Merlots, Pinot Noirs, and Cabs. I frequantly spend $16-30 a bottle and drink the night of purchase. Having found some favorites I want to buy in case quantities but I am afraid that I may store incorrectly or alter a proper aging proceedure. I plan to invest in a small wine room - dark, good humidity 50-70% and cool.
Help and suggestions are greatly appeciated.
Thanks,
Clint
- winoweenie - 07-12-2000
Hey Clint, Welcome to the board. You`re definately starting your venture into wine collecting properly. The primary problem facing the wine collector is storage, and yours` sounds ideal. As far as length of time every wine has a minimum and maximum.You seem to be buying wines in the better catagories, so here are my general ageing guidlines; Merlots , Calif. 1 to 5 years.Pomerols, 2 to 10 years ( Longer for top guns like Petrus, Trotanoy,La Conseillante, L`Evangile)Pinots Calif 3 to 5 years(You wont be buying many Burgandies in the price frame outlined) and Cabernets, 3 to 10 years (Again Top Guns More). Your friendly wine merchant should be able to help on specific bottles. In Vino Veritas Est. Winoweenie ( REDS)
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 07-12-2000).]
- cd4814 - 07-12-2000
Winoweenie,
I started to read your reviews (alphabetically) of the Cabs you have in your cellar. I do plan to build a small wine cellar (closet with appropriate racks and a dedicated cooler/humidifier) I have even decided to insulate and tile the room. (We are building a new home) The biggest question is how big is big enough? two years ago I would never imagine having more than a dozen bottles on hand at one time, now I can forsee maybe 100-150. I do not plan to be an investment collector. Just a wine slut on a personal level [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img] My wife does not drink wine. Should I plan for 500-800 like I've been reccomended? Seems that each pre-fab rack holds 126 bottles. I guess I am putting the horse before the cart but this is the time to plan...besides the house is a custom job placed in an upscale community (for Hartsville anyway) I kinda think such a luxury would be a selling point if we ever move. I know I am spiraling off on a tangent but, again all help and suggestions would be of great help. BTW how big is your cellar? I would imagine it to be quite awe-inspiring.
Thanks,
Clint
- Bucko - 07-12-2000
Clint, calculate out how much wine you think you would like to cellar, say 750 bottles. Then DOUBLE it and you still will not have enough room in a few years, trust me, I know from experience.
Bucko
- cd4814 - 07-12-2000
Yet another addendum: I stated in the price range of $16-30. I would be willing to plunge for a special vintage, it would just be the jewel of my collection. Without admitting the purchase to my wife (hee-hee) I could see dropping $100 on a single bottle but only for a exceptional wine bought for a special occasion. However, I am by no means planning to make such a purchase a normal occurance.
Thanks,
Clint
- Wallace - 07-12-2000
Clint, Something you may want to consider. Rather than spend big bucks for wine racks I use 4" ventilated sewer pipe cut into 6" lengths. They stack on their sides and glue together very well. If you would prefer you can also get lengths of clay and cut those up but not so easily. Slip the bottle in on it's side, easy to get in and out.
Also, when considering cellar temperatures, 50 to 70 degrees too much of a temperature swing. A constant temperature is vital with no more than a ten degree variance.
And, based on what you say here, Bucko is absolutely right, you're going to need more room.
- winoweenie - 07-12-2000
Jim, as I read Clints~ post he was referring to humidity on the 50-70% range. Think he will be able to keep the temps between 52-55* with the type of box he`s contemplating. Bucks` tell it like it be. If you think you want700 btles, you`ll be storing another 700 somewhers` within 2 yars. Fact of life. Look at your income, look at the wines you covet, look at the area you can put into storage.......Double All and then you`ll be 40 to 70 % short. SO MUCH WINE>>>>>>>>>>SO LITTLE TIME. P.S. I`m On my 6th expansion in the last 35 years. Drink Fast, Write Short-hand, take no Captives. Winoweenie. P.S. Have a few , but as above, NOT ENOUGH. WW
- winecollector - 07-13-2000
cd4814- These guys make some good points regarding cellar size. Within a couple of years of your getting serious with wine collecting, you'll likely find your original plans become obsolete. I designed my cellar with the possibility of expanding it to two to three times its current size, just in case.
Also, when I got back into wine collecting about 3 years ago, I never spent more than $30 a bottle during the first year. Now, it's nothing for me to spend $100 a bottle for some Opus, or more for some Haut Brion or Rothschilds.
Oh, and by the way- my current cellar can store about 600-700 bottles, though I only have about 250 to 300 in there right now. When I go on a buying spree, it's nothing for me to buy 80 to 100 bottles in a couple of months time. But for now, I'm concentrating more on the drinking than stocking up.
- cd4814 - 07-13-2000
Thank you one and all.
I look forward to participating on this list.
Looks like I'll shoot for around 1000-1200 bottles then...I had to reassure myself of the need for future storage.
Thanks,
Clint
- winoweenie - 07-13-2000
Clint, Just re-read your post and missed a VERY important point. Your wife doesn`t imbibe!? Wanna Trade? Jes` joshin`. With that in mind I`ll cut my original statement down to read: " Double ALL and then you`ll only be 39% to 69 % short." Like your attitude about juice. Have never bought a bottle with amortization in mind and there is nothing in the cellar that is sacrosanct if the person picking it is knowledgeable enough to enjoy it. Have fun , and I know you will in fillin` that bugger, then drink hard and leave no captives. Winoweenie
- cd4814 - 07-13-2000
Winoweenie,
it seems that this group is an ensemble of characters that parallel my personal traits; a witty sense of humor is what makes life enjoyable. We could certianly work out a trade for the wife. The dowlery(sp?) ofcourse would be 1/3 of your collection (my choice), free Olefin Berber for the entire upstairs (Shaw makes a nice one [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]) and ofcourse no returns or refunds.
Shoot I'll even throw in free shipping. Seriously, she is a sweetie but has never had the means to enjoy the finer things in life. BTW what is with the inside joke about Child Brides? Anyone have hints about how to divy up the storage in a cellar? how many single bottle racks compared to diamond bins and case storage racks?
Thanks,
Clint
- hotwine - 07-13-2000
Here are some ideas on the question of the types of racks to use in your cellar:
- Individual bottle racks - the type that have a pigeon-hole for each bottle - provide security and ventilation for each bottle. However, IMO they are not very efficient in their use of space, and don't lend themselves all that well to grouping in case lots.
- Diamond bins provide security for each bottle (they can't roll around), but if made of wood they don't provide good ventilation.
They do, however, lend themselves quite well to storage of case lots.
- Bookcase-style shelves provide no security for individual bottles (without the aid of blocks, wedges etc. to hold them in place), but provide good ventilation, if open at each end, and accommodate unopened cases.
For my requirements, diamond bins made of welded steel frames with walls of expanded metal (mesh)would work best. I haven't built any yet, but plan to get around to it before too long.
As to quantities: I have three plywood diamond bins and two bookcase-style racks, each with a capacity of about 168 Bordeaux -
style bottles, with room in the cellar for two more racks (each is 3' X 5').