+- WineBoard (https://www.wines.com/wineboard)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-100.html)
+--- Forum: For the Novice (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Ripeness Level (/thread-17767.html)
- rchhchan - 03-07-2005
Hi
If I use the German system to gauge the ripeness level of grapes harvested for French riesling, which category do the grapes fall under? a) before Kabinett, b) Kabinett, c) Spatlese, d) Auslese, e) other. Dessert wine not considered. Notice the vast difference in price between the following: Hugel Riesling Alsace (France): S$33.00. Robert Weil Auslese Riesling Dry Germany): S$120.00. I am using ripeness level to determine the complexity, intensity and body which generally are criteria by which wines are judged. Thus I am able to know if what I have paid for is worth for money.
Regards
Ray
- wdonovan - 03-07-2005
You have some faulty assumptions here. First one is that the German sugar level system is ripeness. It is not. It's based on the sugar level in the grapes at harvest. Least sugar in 'A', most in 'E'. Second bad assumption is that ripeness (or sugar level) equals quality and price. Not true. The ausleses, beerenausleses, TBA's, eisweins, etc. are expensive because, with higher sugar, they're increasing more expensive to produce. Thirdly, ripeness contributes to but is not the sole contributor to complexity et al. Nice attempt to reduce wine to a single factor but I'm afraid it ain't gonna work.
- wondersofwine - 03-07-2005
Most Alsace Riesling is made to be dry with the exception of the Vendange Tardive (late harvest). Still it may be fruity enough that you won't find it bitter. You could buy one to try (maybe in a half bottle). Robert Weil is one of the more expensive producers in Germany. You can surely find other good Spatlese and Auslese wines at a more reasonable cost. I do not have personal experience with Weil's wines but think that the cost, for me, would make them "not worth the price." They are probably excellent wines but just too high (like buying a Chevrolet instead of a Mercedes or Porsche).
- Thomas - 03-07-2005
To add to wdonovan's comments: you can't evaluate French wine the way German wines are evaluated for their sugar levels at harvest. The reason the German system exists is in part because sugar is a precious thing in a cool growing region. Many parts of France are not that cool--and don't anyone of you get me for the potential double meaning [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img].
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 03-07-2005).]
- chittychattykathy - 03-07-2005
foodie-- tough to stay away from that one... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
- rchhchan - 03-08-2005
Hi wdonovan , wondersofwine, foodie
What you guys said, do make some sense but I suppose you people would not disagree to the following facts:
1) The riper the grapes the sweeter they
are. A very young apple for instance, has
much less sugar than a fully ripened one.
I don't see why it is wrong for the
Germans to link must weight {sugar level
in grape juice before fermentation) with
ripeness.
2) A wine that is made from very young or
baby berries (extreme but unlikely case),
cannot be as intense and flavourful as
one made from fully ripened grapes.
3) Natural sugar in grapes is one of the
most important elements in wine making,
without which, other forms of sugar has
to be addeed to reach the desired level
of alcohol, a method invented by the
French known as chaptalization.
I am not being cocky but rather I am trying to find out from u guys how ripe the grapes were when harvested to made that bottle of Alsace Riesling. It is immpossible even for the best master wine maker to craft a fine wine out of immature grapes.
Ray
- Thomas - 03-08-2005
Ray,
You are correct that the riper a grape, the more sugar it contains, but that is not the criteria for making wine.
The criteria for making wine, to any good winemaker, is not how biologically ripe particular grapes are when harvested, but have those grapes reached the level of ripeness required to offer their individual character to a wine. Each grape variety has its own set of ripening criteria where it develops the phenolic structure needed to bring out its unique qualities. Biologically ripe (or over-ripe) grapes quite often produce inferior, flabby wines.
Measuring sugars and acids (pH) and comparing that with past history and knowledge, best determines when the grapes have reached ripeness for winemaking. Tasting them off the vine helps an experienced person too.
Sugar's essential role is to produce alcohol as a by-product of fermentation, unless you are trying to create a naturally sweet wine.
The French did not "invent" chaptalization. Mr. Chaptal gets credit for introducing the concept into some--not all--French winemaking. Mesopotamians added honey and other sweets to fermenting grapes more than 4,000 years ago.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 03-08-2005).]