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- dnovak - 01-07-2003

Hi All Again,

Another question I have and I don't know if this is the forum to ask it on. But what the heck, what the heck (an APP reference if any one cares)...

Anyway, I have been playing with the idea of getting a good before dinner Aperitif. Now I know very little about what Aperitif's there are available and what ones I may like. I know they are meant to help stimulate the appetite or in cases help settle the overly stuff stomach by soothing the stomach. If there are different ones for each of these tasks, I don't know but hope to find out.

I know that there are various different types of Aperitif's like Vermouth's, Champagne, Sherry, and Fortified & flavored wines. I have had an Orange flavored Liquor one time at the Olive Garden Restaurant and have had "Ouzo" (Spelling?) before but both of these didn't appeal to me enough to go by them for my home. The Orange liquor was somewhat hard to take down (a little too strong). And the Ouzo was delightful on the way it settled the stomach but I'm not a black licorice flavor fan.

So I hope that maybe some of you may help me narrow the selection down a bit. I am hope to get something that I take before a meal to stimulate the appetite. And I will leave a Sparkling wine or Champagne finish off the meal. Now I am looking for something similar to Ouzo but with a different flavor (other than black licorice).

What do any of you suggest trying? I will probably try the suggestion out at a restaurant first before buying a whole bottle just to find out I don’t like it. So I probably suggest that we keep it to more popular brands at first and then I may venture into the unknown, in buying something I haven’t tasted before.

So any help you can give would be greatly appreciated…

Sincerely,
David S. Novak

- hotwine - 01-07-2003

Harvey's Bristol Creme Sherry is the classic aperatif in our house. And for after dinner, a glass of Port, or perhaps a dash of Cointreau in a cup of decaf coffee. (Although must admit that we rarely indulge in either any more. A bottle of wine with dinner is enough alcohol for the evening.)

- Innkeeper - 01-07-2003

If somehow you end up with an oak bomb of a chardonnay in the house; they can skulk in as gifts, in shipments from wine clubs, and other nefarious means; you can use it as an aperitif.

- ShortWiner - 01-08-2003

I'm a big fan of sherry. There are great, great deals to be had--incredible wines for next to nothing. I tend to like the dry, dark varieties best. A staple for me is the Antonio Barbadillo Dry Oloroso, about $8-9. Great stuff--it's got flavors of nuts, and dried fruit and an appealing acidity. Probably the most complex drink I've ever had for the money. I often use it before or after dinner. And it's a truly awesome match with my wife's chocolate chip cookies.

- gobigred - 01-08-2003

I realize you want the sparkler for after dinner, but my favorite pre-dinner drink is a Kir, or Kir Royale as it's called. Especially around the house for dinner parties, a bottle of Creme de Cassis will last forever and it can turn a $7.99 sparkling wine into something decent, and the women love it.

- Kcwhippet - 01-08-2003

Kir is made with Chardonnay, and Kir Royale with a sparkling wine, optimally Champagne. Two different drinks. There's also a Kir Rouge made with red wine, but that's not seen too often.

[This message has been edited by Kcwhippet (edited 01-08-2003).]

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Hotwine,

Thank you for the suggestion of Harvey’s Bristol Creme, I will ask for that while I’m out one of these nights to see it will work for me. *smile*

As for the after dinner drink, since I’m not a coffee drinker. The Cointreau in a cup of coffee won’t work for me. But I am intrigue by the mention of Port. Now because I’m fairly new at this, please bare with me. Isn’t a type of drink not a particular brand or manufacturer? Am I right?

If so, what types of Port do you recommend? I would love to hear your suggestions…

Sincerely,
David

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Innkeeper,

I’m sorry; I guess I’m a little daft here. But what do you mean by ‘an oak bomb of a chardonnay’?

I sense that you have a good knowledge in this area but since I’m clueless when it comes to wine & aperitifs, I guess I need it in simpler terms… Sorry

Sincerely,
David

- hotwine - 01-08-2003

Port is a dessert wine from Oporto, Portugal. There are many available. Taylor Fladgate is a favorite, at about $18/bottle.

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Shortwiner,

Sounds fun, cookies & sherry… *smile*

But because I’m newer at wines I tend to lean away from drier wines. But I’m slowly getting a taste for more and more drier wines…

Now is that Antonio Barbadillo Dry Oloroso, very dry? The price range is great but I’m curious on how much I would enjoy if it’s very dry. The flavor of nuts and dried fruits sound very intriguing…

Sincerely,
David

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Gobigred,

I’m sorry but I got a little confused by your post… Yes, I was considering the Cerdon du Bugey as a finish for dinner. But I didn’t quite understand when you were suggesting the Kir or Kir Royale. I believe you meant it as a pre-dinner aperitif but then you referenced Creme de Cassis to be in conjunction with the sparkling wine.

Now please bear with me if I’m daft on this and you need to club me over the head with a clue-by-four but is Creme de Cassis a type of Kir? Or is it completely different and was meant as a different reference?

Or was the Crème de Cassis a replacement for the Cerdon du Bugey as the finish? And have Kir or Kir Royale as a pre-dinner drink?

Just curious, but nonetheless I will see about trying out your suggestions at a night out soon to see if they work for me… *smile*

Sincerely,
David

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Hotwine,

Thanks, now I know a little more about Port. *smile*

I will try the Taylor Fladgate soon…

Sincerely,
David

- dnovak - 01-08-2003

Hi Kcwhippet,

Thanks for the info on Kir, Kir Royale, and Kir Rouge. *smile*

I assume that the Kir, since it’s made with Chardonnay, it’s the sweetest of the three. Or am I totally wrong? (You know, me clueless here) *smile*

How do they each compare to each other? On dryness, flavor, and other unique qualities?

Sincerely,
David

- Kcwhippet - 01-09-2003

OK, here goes. Creme de Cassis is a liqueur made from currants, and it's slightly sweet. Mixing with white wine, red wine or sparkling wine gives you a Kir, a Kir Rouge or a Kir Royale, respectively. It's usually served as an apperitif or as a brunch drink, where you might also find a Mimosa, which is sparkling wine with orange juice.

- joeyz6 - 01-09-2003

I also recommend Kirs of any sort. And I love Martini, the Italian aperitif. Plus there's Cinzano and Pastis.

Usually regular Kirs are made with the Aligoté varietal, which comes from Burgundy, but you can use any white wine. If it's Chard, you call it a Kir Chardonnay. If it's Sauvignon, you call it a Kir Sauvignon. And a Kir with red wine is normally called a Cardinal, I think. Regardless of the lingo, Kirs are very pleasant drinks, and you can control how strong they are by putting in as much or as little of the liqueur as you want.

Speaking of which, you can use other liqueurs (raspberry, cherry, whatever) as well. Apparently raspberry works very well also.

So to try making a Kir, put in about a teaspoon of the liqueur and then four or five ounces of wine. Then next time adjust the amount of the liqueur to your taste.

- Thomas - 01-09-2003

Dnovak, I know you say you aren't keen on dry wine, but my view takes me to dry aperitif like dry Sherry (Manzanilla is great) or a biiter-sweet Campari with seltzer and lime.

The reason: sugar overcomes the palate; if you have it before dining, you run the risk of enjoying your dinner less. On the other hand, a dry aperitif stimulates the palate.

When do we eat dessert? Not before but after dinner.

- Innkeeper - 01-09-2003

Most (99.99999999999999%) of American Chardonnay I wouldn't buy with my last nickle. The reason is it tastes more like wood than grapes. That which sells under $15 is made this way by submitting the wine to giant tea bags of toasted oak sawdust, or they just let the sawdust filter down through the wine and settle on the bottom.

Most other New World Chardonnay is made the same way. Despite all this, I like chardonnay. Fortunately there are some sane vinters in both Australia and New Zealand that have had success with sales and with me by offering "unwooded" or "unoaked" chardonnay. Also, many of the Maconnaise Wines from Southern Burgundy and most Chablis (that Bucko mentioned) from Northern Burgundy are also oak free.

In sum, an "oakbomb" is a chardonnay (or any other white wine) that tastes more like a forest than a what come out of a vineyard.

- ShortWiner - 01-09-2003

Back to Sherry--I agree wholeheartedly with Foodie in that I wouldn't really want a sweet aperitif most of the time. Harvey's Bristol Cream is too sweet for me (any Sherry with the word "cream" will be sweet). Manzanilla is a good suggestion, and will be lighter than an Oloroso. (Yes, the Barbadillo Oloroso I mentioned is quite dry).

Here's a specific recommendation: Tio Pepe Fino is a decent, widely available Sherry. Probably a good one to start on. Chill it--it'll be refreshing and pleasant, with some of that delightful nutty flavor.

- wondersofwine - 01-09-2003

dnovak,
I usually have a German Riesling Kabinett or Spatlese as an aperitif, but if I were to go with a liqueur I would probably pick Drambuie (Scotch-based). Benedictine is a Cognac-based aperitif that is supposed to aid digestion. (www.saskys.com)
You said you don't drink coffee, but I love the afterdinner combination of coffee and amaretto--first a sip of one, then the other--not mixing the two. Or I enjoy port occasionally after dinner, especially the tawny ports which are aged longer than ruby ports before bottling.

- dnovak - 01-09-2003

Hi Kcwhippet,

Thanks for the info on Creme de Cassis & on Kir, Kir Rouge, & Kir Royale. It clears up a quite a bit for me...

Sincerely,
David