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+--- Thread: Corked Wine Question (/thread-17297.html)
- RAD - 12-25-2000
Had my first corked wine of the year on Christmas Eve--a 1997 Freemark Abbey cab. Fortunately (or so I thought), I'd bought 2 bottles earlier in the day, so everything was OK. But I opened the second bottle, and it too was corked! Strong, musty, off-putting smell--though my in-laws said they didn't notice.
What are the odds of back-to-back wines from the same producer being corked? Anyone else had any bad experiences with this particular bottle?
RAD
- Bucko - 12-26-2000
No experience with the wine, but with multiple exact wines being corked. I purchased a case of Brand X (no need to trash the winery). ALL of the bottles were corked and they gave me back my money. It turns out that they had a bad batch of corks and several hundred bottles got tainted although not nearly that many got returned. I guess many people were like your in-laws.
Threshold levels for appreciating a corked wine can vary as much as 1000-fold. I am not as sensitive as my wife, so when a wine tastes fruitless, but yet I detect no corkiness, I ask her to take a whiff. More often than not she will curl up her nose and say that it is corked.
I would call Freemark Abbey and ask them if they are having a cork problem. Most wineries are very quick to rectify the situation.
FWIW, not all mustiness is a cork problem. You can also have barrel taint that will give a musty, mousey odor.
Bucko
- janrob - 12-26-2000
Rad
At the wineries, corks are received by the thousand in big plastic bags. In fact, corked wines do very much run in batches. I know of a few otherwise exceptional producers who are more likely to have a corked wine, because of their choice of suppliers. I don't know what your retailer's policy is, here in Ontario our board will refund for a corked wine. At the very least, wineries want to know if they are having a problem with corked wines. Because for every person like yourself who can identify a corked wine, there are 5 who are going to think it's an inferior wine and not buy the product again. Hope your Christmas went well otherwise.
- Catch 22 - 12-26-2000
Just because misery loves company, I thought I would let you know that, I too, had a corked bottle on Christmas Eve. It wasn't the same bottle, though. It was a 98 Blackstone Merlot Napa that I was REALLY looking forward to. Fortunately, we had a backup, so the evening was not lost. C'est la vie!
- winoweenie - 12-27-2000
Hi Rad and hope your holidays went well. I`ve had this discussion hundreds of times and I`m still convinced that one of the primary triggers of corkiness is handling. From the winery to the distributor, to the store and the customer. Of the MEENY bottles that I`ve opened in my lifetime, I`ve yet to run into a corked bottle that I picked up at the winery and took straight to my cellar. In fact, I`ve only had 2 or three corked bottles period, and all of them went thru the distribution system. That`s my take on it and I`m stickin` wif`IT! winoweenie
- Thomas - 12-27-2000
WW, consider yourself lucky, but do not foster the myth that corkiness has to do only with handling. There is a technical, chemical reason for the problem and it sometimes marries well with bad handling.
And yes, Rad, the problem often appears in batches.
- winoweenie - 12-27-2000
Foodie, that is exactly what my argument describes. The inherent bacteria that causes corkiness CAN be abated by good handling AND a cellar that inhibits its growth. WW
- Bucko - 12-28-2000
WW, we need to go to the wood shed..... ;-) Except you might like it! }:>
Bucko
- Thomas - 12-28-2000
I heard there is no room at the woodshed, it being full of California winemakers seeking the Holy Grail.
WW, misunderstood your point, which isn't hard to do, considering the way you practice on the inglish luggage.
To illustrate the possibility connected to handling, I refuse to buy a certain Alsatian product because I experienced far too many corky wines relative to the percentage expected.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 12-28-2000).]
- chittychattykathy - 12-28-2000
It is my understanding that while the corks are being cleaned and washed, (with hydrogen peroxide most often), and coated with emulsified paraffin that the humidity must stay below 51/2-7%, if it gets over this amount the cork can get a mold that grows and creates a "corked wine". I have been told by a few wine makers that said corks can ruin a wine in as little as a few hours. As Janrod said, a good supplier is a first defense in combating this problem. As far as the temperature after bottling I have not heard mention one way or another in regards to corked wines. Cooked wines are a whole other deal though, and I run across a few cooked wines throughout the year. But corked wines are much more common, although in varing degrees of flavor. As Bucko mentioned, many are below the level where most people would notice it, and often the wine itself gets the blame.
- RAD - 12-28-2000
FWIW, I'll describe the scenario a bit more. I described the initial smell as "musty," because this seemed to fit more in line with the olfactory descriptions I've read about 2,4,6-tricloroanisole, the culprit of corked wine. But in reality, it was more of a dirty-detergent type smell, in a musty kind of way. And you could tell, ever-so-slightly, that there was some fruit underneath, but the wine acted "dumb", as if it were enshrouded in an antihedonistic tomb. My first thought was perhaps there was some remnants of detergent in the glass, so I thoroughly washed and dried it before trying some more. I'm familiar with Freemark Abbey's offerings, having several bottles each of their Bosche, Sycamore Vineyard, and regular Napa bottlings across multiple vintages, so I knew this was out of the norm. But as I've only been really into wine for about a year now, these two bottles were my first two that genuinely appeared corked (out of 130 or so opened this year).
It is interesting, as Bucko noted, that sensitivity to TCA can vary 1000-fold. My wife, though not quite the wine geek that I am becoming, still has a decent nose (looks good too!) and palate, and didn't observe the "corkiness," though she did think that the wine was muted.
RAD
- Bucko - 12-28-2000
That is the whole secret -- you may not taste or smell the TCA, but the wine will seem lifeless.
Bucko
- winoweenie - 12-28-2000
UMPH!....Snort....WHAZZAT... You called Me? WW