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les hauts de pontet paudillac 1983 - Printable Version

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- diamondsman - 11-01-2003 02:40 PM

I would like to know where or if anyone is interseted to purchase or tell me how much it's worth ,and where can I sell it?this wine bottle that we have for over 20 years it is : ch^ateau, les hauts de ponte, pauillac. Year 1983.


- Kcwhippet - 11-01-2003 06:48 PM

Personally it's not worth anything to me. If it were a 1982 or a 1985 and you could prove impeccable storage since release, then maybe. Not to be a jerk, but you couldn't have had a 1983 for over twenty years, since it wasn't bottled until late 84 or early 85.


- winoweenie - 11-02-2003 08:09 AM

Hi Diamondsman and welcome to the board. The wine you have is the 2nd label of the 5th Growrh Pontet-Canet. Second wines with the exception occassionaly of the 1st growths don't have a great re-sale market. They are used to optimize grapes not quite good enough to go into the eastates' first wines. On another note, living in St. Pete this wine would need EXTREMELY good storage to have survived. Sorry no real value. Please excuse ole' grumpy KC as he had a burr under his blanket after sparring with brom. Open that sucker and pray it's still drinkable. WW


- diamondsman - 11-02-2003 03:00 PM

I dont know why you would say it is not a 1983 I can show you a picture of the bottle, And yes I do have it for 20 years!!

[This message has been edited by diamondsman (edited 11-02-2003).]


- Innkeeper - 11-02-2003 04:24 PM

I don't understand your position. If it is an '83, the grapes were harvested twenty years ago at this time. The 2000's were released last year and this year. Therefore the '83s were released during '85 and '86. There is no way anyone could have an '83 in their possession for twenty years.

Secondly, if you have had the bottle in your possession since it was released, you need to tell us how it was stored as previously requested. A second bottling from a bad vintage, has to be stored perfectly in order to be palatable at this point. You have already been told that it has little or no resale value.

[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 11-02-2003).]


- winoweenie - 11-02-2003 05:57 PM

Please bear with us while we try to help you. What all are trying to tell you that they don't disagree that it is from the 83 vintage, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to have had the bottles in your possesion for 20 years as the wines are held in barrel for between 24 and 36 months BEFORE they are bottled.IE; the wine was not in bottle until 85. We're not trying to ridicule you, just give you some good info. 83 was not a disaster but not a GREAT vintage. Please read my previous post carefully as it tell it like it be. WW


- Kcwhippet - 11-03-2003 06:28 AM

Apologize for the abruptness before, diamondsman. However, I stand by the statements in my post. You have a second label wine from a not so great vintage and you live in a very warm area, all of which would make a serious wine geek shy away from that bottle. The vintage year on the bottle indicates the year the grapes were grown and picked, and the year the wine was fermented. Wines such as yours will generally spend 12 months or much more in barrel before they're bottled and then released. So, the absolute earliest you could possibly have had the bottle would be about late December of 1984, but most likely later, and that's certainly not more than twenty years.


- diamondsman - 11-04-2003 09:07 AM

Sorry If you want to be technical then yes you are right i might have it for 18 years..
does 1-2 years make a diff.?
Also Ho wdo you know that I lived here for the alst 20 years. Maybe i moved to fl. a few months ago from n.y.where I had it in my cellar down in basement.
pleas dont ass u me.
now tell me if it is worth anything


- Thomas - 11-04-2003 10:08 AM

diamondman, it is a lesser wine from a lesser vintage--it is worthless, no matter how many years you have had it and no matter how well it once might have been stored.

The wine might also be undrinkable, but there is only one way to find that out...


- Kcwhippet - 11-04-2003 10:23 AM

Well, your particular wine doesn't show up on winesearcher or any of the past years' auction results, most likely because it's from a not so great vintage and from a brand new (at that time) second label. The winery itself recommends the wine be drunk within five years of bottling. Prices on current vintages average $18. All that taken, it appears your wine has no appreciated value. Also, when trying to sell wines, auction houses won't take single bottles unless they are from first growth wineries from truly exceptional vintages, and only if you can document impeccable storage.


- diamondsman - 11-04-2003 10:55 PM

how do you know that it was a bad year ?


- Kcwhippet - 11-05-2003 06:06 AM

People who are seriously into wine and those in the business can be generally described as students of agriculture, meteorology and even history. We have an idea how a grape vine and its fruits grow - some of us are more knowledgeable than others, but the more one learns about wine, the more you find you know about grapes themselves. Along the same line, the more one learns about wine, the more you realize how weather events dramatically affect the growth and maturity of grapes. As for history, it really does repeat itself and we have learned that when certain weather events occur, the grapes will grow and mature a certain way and the resulting wine will generally turn out predictably. What that boils down to is that when the weather sucks, the wine will not be as good for that year as in years the weather is beautiful, as far as the needs of the grape are concerned. Well, in Bordeaux in 1983 the weather sucked. It had a cold, wet, bleak spring that warmed up late, and delayed bud break, which shortens the growing season. June and July were warm and dry, with not much rain, so the grapes were growing slowly and their size was small. August was muggy and humid which caused a lot of rot and mildew in the grapes bunches, thus lowering the size of the crop. It rained around harvest which caused the berries to swell with water and dilute the fruit's concentration. With very good vineyard practices and good timing at harvest, it's possible to make decent wine in bad years, and very few wineries in Bordeaux managed that in 1983. Les Hauts de Pntet was not one of them. Back in early 1998, Clive Coates tasted a lot of Bordeaux wines and published his tasting notes. About the 1983 wines in general he said they were not fresh, they lacked grip, they were deficient in vigor, and they were short on the palate. He named about ten, out of the hundreds of Bordeaux wines, that were of sufficient quality to warrant drinking past that date. Les Hauts de Pontet was not one of those wines. That's how we know 1983 was a "bad" year, and so would anyone who knows enough about wine to research 1983 to find out what to offer you for your wine. I'll offer $15 and you pay for shipping.


- diamondsman - 11-05-2003 08:34 AM

Thank you for your reply and generous offer,But for that price i think I 'll keep it another 20 years(or 18), my father used to grow grapes in his back yard, and there were and we used to eat them as well as make wine ,
even though the weather was not good in some years they still tasted the same! especially when he made home made wine , I never nor anyone else tell the difference.
I have been to many upscale restaurants where they serve wine, and I have yet to see anyone return a bottle after the waiter lets him/her taste,by saying that it was a bad vintage year,or that the wine doesnot taste as they expected,I think the owner of the restaurant would throw the customer out if he/her will tell them that it is not to their likings after opening a bottle that costs in 100's, especially if it is 18 years old.
I think this bottle is worth much more even if it is just for the bottle and the labels as these are a collectors items by themselves, not to say that the wine is aged.

thak you all


- Thomas - 11-05-2003 08:45 AM

diamondsman, just because you can't tell the difference between wines doesn't mean others can't too. And who is to say that the wine from your backyard was any good even if it was consistent? Backyard grape growing and winemaking bears as much relationship to commercial grape growing and winemaking as karaoke does to concert performance.

You can believe what you want. But you came here for information and we gave it to you. The wine is worthless, bottle and all, and if you keep it for another 18 years, it will be vinegar. Why did you ask the question if you did not want the answer?

As for your restaurant mention: many people pay top dollar for wine at restaurants and they don't even know whether it has gone bad or not, or whether it is worth its price--that does not mean we don't know what we are talking about; it means they don't know how to spend their money.



[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 11-05-2003).]


- winoweenie - 11-05-2003 09:51 AM

Foodie calm down. What we have here is another example of someone asking for help, getting same, and then saying " Don't try confusing me with facts, don't you know my mind is made up?". Let him/her live in his/her fantasy.WW


- Kcwhippet - 11-05-2003 10:27 AM

Amen.


- Thomas - 11-05-2003 11:22 AM

ww, I ain't riled up--just thought diamondsman's final remarks needed attention. If he learns anything from them, that will be a feather in my cap, but I ain't counting on it.

[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 11-05-2003).]


- winoweenie - 11-05-2003 06:09 PM

As my ole' friend "No-Nose Joe" used to say..." Kaint drive a feather thru a brick wall" WW


- diamondsman - 11-05-2003 10:28 PM

thank you all for the info. but you seem to talk like experts what makes you that way?
how can you prove that you are the "experts"


- Thomas - 11-05-2003 10:58 PM

Yeah, like I should waste my time proving my credentials. Some on this board get paid for our knowledge; you should be glad to have gotten it for free--instead, you think you know more than we. Let me ask you a question: if you did not think we were experts why did you ask us for information?



[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 11-05-2003).]