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+--- Thread: Another Tasting Question (/thread-16386.html)
- cheeps - 03-03-2004
Hi everyone - I have another question concerning the "tastes" of different wines. I have been attending wine tastings weekly for the past 5 or 6 weeks now, plus I've been buying different wines to try. The tastings usually have either 2 whites and 4 reds, or 6 reds. While I can taste some differences between different wines, I don't know what to look for as far as what the "typical" flavor of a certain wine should be. The nights they have all the same wines, but different vintages or different producers I have a much harder time telling the difference between them.
Others at the tastings often comment that a certain wine is typical of a Merlot for example, "you can really taste the Merlot in there" is a comment I often hear. My question is, is there a chart or something that will give you some idea about what different grapes are supposed to taste like? I've read the Wall Street Journal wine book, the Windows on the World one, and the Wine Bible, as well as coming here and visiting other wine sites and I still can't figure it out. They seem to all list the same, general comments about each wine - fruity, jammy, black fruits, plums, cherries, chocolate, smoke, etc., but one time they're talking about a Pinot Noir, another time a Merlot, another time a Cabernet, etc., so which typical flavors are supposed to go with which? I realize they all may have similar tastes in common, but what I want to learn is what makes them different also. Is it just a matter of heaviness or aging rather than specific tastes?
I'm not trying to be an expert or be snobby or anything, but I really would like to at least get to the point where I can take a drink of wine and say to myself, that's a Cabernet, or that's a Pinot Noir, etc. I can tell some differences among white wines alot easier than I can with the reds. I know the taste of a Riesling as opposed to a Sauvignon Blanc, or what a typical Chardonnay tastes like for example, but the reds I'm finding really difficult to set apart from each other. TIA!! [img]http://wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
Lisa
- wineguruchgo - 03-03-2004
Hello Cheeps!
I'm not sure if there is a chart out there or not, but I can give you a few clues.
When comparing Pinot Noir & Beaujolais to the others the biggest clue is weight. These wines will have a lighter body. The analogy that I use with my waiters is Milk. Think of how skim milk feels in your mouth when compared to whole milk. Whole milk feels heavier, thicker. Pinot and Beaujolais will be like skim milk. Both should taste like fresh, crushed cherries.
When you get into the Cab, Merlot, Shiraz family it gets a little more tricky.
Shiraz/Syrah should taste like dark berry fruit. Blackberries for example.
Merlot will have dark berry fruit and chocolate.
Cabernet will have dark berry fruit with leather or tar. This should be the heaviest of all.
I'm shooting from the hip here and I'm sure others will jump in to help me. It's really hard because each winery will have their own "house style". Also price plays a big part in it. If you are comparing a $20.00 Merlot against a $7.00 Cab, then the Merlot will win hands down.
There are a lot of variables here.
- Innkeeper - 03-03-2004
That is very good advice, shooting from the hip or not. I would only ammend the merlot part of it. Most New World Merlot under $20 tastes like plums and oak, period. I say most and definitely not all. Recently had one from Easton that was as rich and complex as most cabs.
- quijote - 03-03-2004
Cheeps, A book that I've been using to try to fathom the different flavors possible with the major grapes, is Oz Clarke's _Encyclopedia of Grapes_. It's not a large book, but has several multi-page sections devoted to discussing several major grapes, and provides typical flavor profiles while allowing for the many exceptions available. The book retails for about $40, but I found a second-hand copy for much less. Perhaps your local public library has a copy.
As an avowed novice, I agree that the reds provide quite a challenge to my powers of differentiation, particularly as many lighter or medium reds (Pinot Noirs, Merlots, etc.) are often made in rich styles (like Syrah/Shiraz, Zinfandel, etc.).
Another good source to work with is Andrea Immer's spin on differentiating red wine flavors, as described in _Great Wines Made Simple_. After reviewing her discussion on cool-, moderate, and warm-climate red wine profiles, I realized that I needed to develop a better sense of taste among the "red" and "black" fruits mentioned. So I spent some time tasting red cherries, strawberries, plums, red currants, black currants, dried fruits, raisins, figs, etc. side-by-side, and then with different wines. That helped to set up a good framework with which to approach typical and atypical flavor distinctions in wines.
[This message has been edited by quijote (edited 03-03-2004).]
- aetre - 03-03-2004
I'm a novice too:
Aren't Tannins a large part of the taste? I had shiraz and it was medium body but went down easily, merlot was a little bigger but had a little bit of astringency (puckered my mouth) and the cab, full body, lots and lots of puckering (and the taste lasted longer than the previous two)
and the pinot noir I had, was most like the shiraz, but more fruity. (same body I think)
- MegamanXYZ - 03-03-2004
Maybe its just me but I tend to have more difficulty with young heavy wines. High alcohol content combined with high tannin levels obscure the taste too much to really get a good feel for what's underneath. There are many wines I've read reviews on tried them and question how the heck they got rated so high when I can barely drink them. I find I'm forced to rely more on aroma than taste in such cases. I've tried decanting and while it does help a bit its just not enough. I often wonder how the experts are able to uncover the true flavor when young wines are in such a state. Anyone else have similar problems with these wines?
- MegamanXYZ - 03-03-2004
One other thing.. For whatever reason I decided a few months ago to compare '97 calif cab's with '97 Brunello's just for fun. For the life of me I can't see what all the hoopla is over the Brunello's. I've tried at least 6 over the past 6 months and I can't say I would ever buy any of them again. Are the '97's so backward that they don't warrant comparison at this time (many '97 cab's are still too young but at least they are enjoyable)? Perhaps I just don't care for this varietal but I haven't seen anything negative written on these to date so I'm wondering if its me or not.
- wondersofwine - 03-03-2004
Some of the board members more experienced with Italian wines than I am say a Brunello should age for about fifteen years before consumption. That could be why the '97's seem unpalatable now. I bought two bottles of '97 Brunello but they are still in storage.
- Innkeeper - 03-03-2004
A six or seven year old Brunello is halfway to maturity. That puts it pretty near the bottom of the negative parabolic curve, or right smack in the middle of its dumb stage.
- Thomas - 03-03-2004
The biggest problem with identifying various qualities in individual wine characteristics is that each of us (especially those of us who do not undergo specific sensory training) are influenced by our environment past and present, our experiences and our preferences, not to mention recall abilities.
It is virtually impossible for any one person to categorically put a qualifier on which everyone will agree. There are technical reasons for certain character traits but that is not enough for most people to identify.
I am afraid, cheeps, your quandary can be solved only by experience--vast and constant experience. Keep it up and one day you will wake up to realize that you have a base of knowledge that will finally get you to understand the myriad possibilities in wine tastes and characteristics. Take extensive notes on what you think about wine and compare those notes with what the so-called experts think. At some point you will begin to notice how your thoughts have converged with theirs--if you're really lucky, your thoughts will go contrary to theirs; then, you can become your own expert!
- cheeps - 03-04-2004
Thanks everyone - I guess I just need to take more time and learn more. I just thought that maybe there might be certain markers to look for that would really differentiate one wine from another so as soon as you tasted/smelled it, a light would go off and bingo! you knew what you were drinking immediately.
I attended another tasting last night and was very happy with the selections. They had 3 whites and 3 reds this time. I was able to pick out the vanilla, toasty oak, and creaminess of the chardonnay they offered, I could pick out the Grenache distinctly from the other 2 reds they had, and I tasted a Cabernet Franc for the first time - altho I couldn't say much about that one from just the one taste of it. They had a wonderful Merlot and I could really taste the "chocolate" in the finish for the first time. This is just too much fun!
Lisa
- wondersofwine - 03-04-2004
Cheeps,
My first "chocolate" experience in a wine was with a Beaujolais Cru (Moulin a Vent). I occasionally detect it now in Merlot, Bordeaux wines, etc. but not all that often.
Keep it up. The tastings sound fun.
- Tastevin - 03-04-2004
Well said Foodie. Cheeps, good luck and have fun in your voyage of discovery. T