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+--- Thread: Giving Wine a Rest (/thread-13508.html)
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- Innkeeper - 05-24-2000
From time to time the subject of resting wine after shipments comes up in passing. Not talking about aging here. That's a completely different subject. Since we also see postings from time to time that indicate some of our members don't practice resting, thought it might be time to air out the subject.
When wine is transported, it is disturbed, sort of like when you put different liquids in a container and whirl them around. They separate. Transporting wine isn't that vigourous, but the same general thing happens. Very frequently when recieving wines from a retailer, broker, or winery there is a note in the top of the box advising us to let it rest for a week to ten days. There are authorities that say even bringing wine home from a local store should be rested for a day or two, which we do, except for an emergency. The rule of thumb, we've thus developed from all this advice goes like this: Shipped from across the country - 10 days; halfway - a week; 200-500 miles - 5 days; home from the store - a day or two. We have definitely been able to tell the difference from wine drunk too soon after travelling, and the same wine tasted after a rest.
On our recent trip we picked up two bottles of Vichon Merlot at a wine store in the Heartland. One we drank on the road, and the other the other night. See the posting under Merlot. What we didn't say in that posting was that there was a discernable difference. The first being much sharper, and tighter. This had nothing to do with aging; only talking about 30 days here. The difference was in the resting.
- winoweenie - 05-24-2000
Inkeeper , you hit the bottle rite on the cork! I pick-up in Calif about 6 times a year and NEVER open a bottle for a minimum of 2 months.Most of the winemakers tell people to let the bottles rest when they get them home.Needless to say, the older the bottling, the more it demands resting. Winoweenie
- Scoop - 05-24-2000
Great advice Innkeeper! Sometimes we don't always have the luxury of waiting, but whenever possible, it's the right thing to do!And you even have a system!
Cheers,
Scoop
- winecollector - 05-24-2000
I don't believe I've every heard of this resting a wine before, unless I mistakenly took it for the need of cellaring. But I have to admit, it does make sense! Thanks for teaching me something new today guys!
My only problem, is that when carrying wine to wine tastings, or going over a friends house for dinner, you don't really have the luxury of resting a wine for any lengh of time before your to open it. Oh, well. I've done this long without knowing any better!
[This message has been edited by winecollector (edited 05-24-2000).]
- hotwine - 05-24-2000
I'll offer my thanks, too, Innkeeper. Had noticed your passing comment the other day about allowing wines to rest, and had adopted the idea for the Cru Beaujolais received from Houston on Sunday. It's driving me nuts, but I'll give them a couple more days rest before pulling a Morgon as a sampler. Discipline, discipline....
- Winent - 05-24-2000
Haven't posted in a while, but thought I would jump in on this one. I guess I'm not convinced how "resting" the bottle re-integrates the flavors in a bottle. I can see the value in resting bottles that throw sediment. However, for young bottles, the proposed mechanism by which wines are disturbed during travel seems dubious. How can mild vibrations cause a solution to separate? Furthermore, how does keeping the bottle still (thus no input of energy into the system) effect a reintegration of the wine? It seems many folks such as yourselves who are learned about wine subscribe to the practice and strongly believe it affects their wines. However, sounds like a bunch of voodoo to me.
- Jason - 05-25-2000
That I know of, none of the guys in the lab coats has ever been able to explain why movement would effect a wine.
However, there are enough stories like Innkeeper's to suggest otherwise.
My guess is the lab coats are just missing something.
- Drew - 05-25-2000
Innkeeper, I'm still a little confused. You stated, "When wine is transported, it is disturbed, sort of like when you put different liquids in a container and whirl them around. They separate." I would think the opposite happens. Most resting complex liquids separate and require "shaking" to blend them together to either, taste right or perform correctly. Also, if disturbances effect a wines' taste without a resting period, why would "rough decantation" of a wine be recommended to "open" the wine for optimal enjoyment when an adequate breathing period is not possible?
Drew
- Innkeeper - 05-25-2000
The last three postings pose good questions to which we don't know the answers. Do know two things for sure. First the advice has been given, particularly from winemakers, for a long time. When we lived in Germany, circa 1966-68, our little ole winemaker in Oppenheim (about 45 minutes away) would insist that we let the wine we brought home rest for two weeks. And the beat goes on.
Secondly, it works. We gave the example of the Vichon Merlot, a young wine, above. Go ahead and do your own experiments. As far as how all this reconciles with the practice of decanting, particularly the glug, glug, glug decanting of big young reds; we haven't got the foggiest.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 05-25-2000).]
- winecollector - 05-25-2000
Something else I've noticed that makes a big difference in the taste of a wine, is the shape of the glass you serve it in. Thus the reason we have so many sizes and shapes of wine glasses. I experienced a very striking difference when we bottled a concord/muscat blend a few months back. As we started bottling, we grabbed the first glasses we could reach- a bordeaux style glass and a burgundy glass. The wine in the burgundy glass had such a lovely floral aroma coming off of it, I almost hated to take my nose away from it since it smelled so good! Upon tasting from it, my mouth just got hit with so many flavors at once, it was like taste-bud overload! On the otherhand, the identical wine in the bordeaux glass tasted like a completely different wine. It tasted very plain, and hardly had any discernable aroma coming off of it at all. Go figure!
I've noticed the same phenomenom with different beers, as I am into dark beers as well. The style glass you use as well as the temperature you serve them at makes a big difference!
- winoweenie - 05-26-2000
I think Georges Reidel can prove very conclusively what you discovered in your tasting of the muscatel; the glass makes a tremendous difference in the sensory values. It has been championed by every wine-maker I`ve met in Calif. We`re even having a tasting here in Phoenix at the Biltmore featuring Mondavi wines and Reidel glasses. Winoweenie
- Drew - 05-26-2000
Winecollector and Winoweenie, you are both so right. I own some Riedel stemware and the experience is so much better consuming wine from his glasses. Not to get off the subject though, Riedel is very expensive and fragile, already broke one....ouch!, as everyday stemware I use Mikasa Vinium series. They're very large bowled, long stemmed, sturdy, but beautiful glasses, and at $5.00 per glass (Buy 8 and get 20% off) break as many as you want.
Drew
[This message has been edited by Drew (edited 05-26-2000).]
- mrdutton - 05-26-2000
Instead of breaking all those glasses, just send the $5.00 to me for each one you would have broken.
Reidel is expensive glassware. I am using the 'suitable substitute' from Wine Enthusiast. The shape and bowl size/volume is similar to the Reidel and the price is much, much lower.
- Thomas - 05-27-2000
I waited long with this one mainly because I thought I had no opinion on it--BUT--
It seems to me the resting belief has merit and that merit comes from the action of oxygen. When wine is moved the oxygen is too, going in and out of suspension as much as that little space at the top of the bottle allows. We all know that oxygen plays an important role in opening up a wine, and maybe it also plays a role in obliterating--however temporarily--certain sensations from various components, and when the oxygen has time to rest everything else settles back to normal.
- winoweenie - 05-27-2000
Reidel makes a Vinium Series also that has the same bowl as the expensive Sommelier series but a machine made stem. This series sells for arouond 15 bucks per stem. I have the rems of my Sommelier ( 1 glass ) purchase , also having broken 3 others, and find very little difference in the aesthetics of the 2. The Vinium series also is sturdier. Winoweenie
- Bucko - 05-28-2000
I've seen this topic debated on and off for years -- never seems to be a consensus vote, nor is any objective data from controlled trials offered up. I remain a skeptic on the subject of resting a bottle.
Bucko
- winecollector - 05-29-2000
The only advice I can give you Bucko, is to give this a try. Everytime my sister-in-law comes over and tours the wine cellar, sooner or later she gets her hands on one of my wine bottles and starts shaking it up! Perhaps you can invite my sister-in-law over, and about 15 minutes before your ready to open a bottle of wine, have her go get it for you. Let me know if it made a difference!
Seriously though, again this was the first I've heard of "resting". While support from the guys in the lab coats might be lacking on the subject, I think Foodie brings out a good point about the air in the bottle mixing around with the wine, when the bottle is handled or transported. He may have something there. I'm not going to discount this theory just because of lack of credible evidence. There's been too many times in the past when the "so-called experts" have changed positions on their research. Remember about 25 years ago, when they started to say margarine was better for your health than butter?
- Winent - 05-29-2000
Hey guys, we lab coats really aren't such a bad lot! I agree that disproven old theories can look pretty silly through the retrospectoscope. However, none of the wine board regulars (myself included) have any problems with the current opinions regarding wine and health benefits - based on evidence based work by scientists.
As for the resting issue, I remain skeptical. The oxygen theory seems like a good idea, but I would think the small bit of oxygen in the dead space above the wine would have long since reacted with the wine, leaving only non-reactive CO2 and other inert gas. Is this correct? Anyway, short of putting the wine in a paint mixer - no signigicant gas exchange is going to take place. Bucko's comment about lack of studies is a good one. Two ways to go: 1) conduct BLIND taste tests with experts such as yourselves and quantify a difference or 2) Say to hell with it, I know it makes a difference, I don't need some egghead with a Ph.D. to confirm it for me. Option two seems to be the overwhelming favorite for most here on the wine board!
- Thomas - 05-29-2000
Ok here's what we do. First we agree on which wines to consume for the experiment; then we each get two bottles of each wine. Then, we let them rest for the same period of time before we take the two out, shake one up completely, open and taste each. Maybe we can do this all at the same time and then have a chat online.
Of course, we will only find out if resting is needed, we still will not know why if it turns out that it is.
I know, I know: how are we ever going to agree on the wines?
- Winent - 05-29-2000
Foodie,
That sounds like fun, I'd like to try! Can I offer one suggestion? It should really be a blind taste test with the taster blinded to which is which. I'll leave the wine selection to my learned colleagues
Winent