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+--- Thread: Rip-off artists and their winelists (/thread-13375.html)
- hotwine - 08-04-2003
Friends had been hounding us to try a new restaurant, one called the Scenic Loop Cafe, NW of San Antonio. Daughter and her beau were visiting over the weekend, so that's where we went. Upscale, native stone building and patios, very promising in appearance. But once inside, it's noisy, crawling with too many chattering waitstaff; then comes the limited, uninspired menu and downright exhorbitant winelist - Borsao for $28, Blackstone (CA) Merlot for $32, K-J Chardonnay for $28... the smallest margin was on their Veueve Clicquot at $58. A few wines were available by the glass, but not one that flipped my Bic to accompany broiled catfish. Any wonder why we seldom go out for dinner?
- Innkeeper - 08-04-2003
In places like that I drink beer, and leave lengthy notes to management.
- Kcwhippet - 08-04-2003
Those prices are outrageous. KJ Chard retails for about $11 here.
- Georgie - 08-04-2003
Those prices are high even by NJ standards!With the way you two cook, I'm not surprised you eat at home!
- dananne - 08-04-2003
Beer. Or iced tea.
I find that I increasingly order something other than wine when I'm out. Last night I was at a restaurant that had d'Arenberg "Stump Jump" for $29 -- it retails at $9.99. Why would I do that? I completely understand restaurants having to mark up wines -- but 3X retail is nuts. That's all I'm saying. Reduce the markup and you'd encourage people to a.) order a bottle in the first place, and b.) order a second bottle. Maybe I'm naive, but I think they'd make it up in increased sales, and they'd have happier, more satisfied customers.
[This message has been edited by dananne (edited 08-04-2003).]
- ShortWiner - 08-04-2003
And bigger tips, with twice as much wine in my blood...
- hotwine - 08-04-2003
And remember, the prices we pay are retail, while those paid by the restaurants are wholesale. So the real mark-up is even more extreme.
We all ordered iced tea. And vowed never to darken their door again.
You would not believe who owns the place.... a very well-known, highly-respected country singer/song-writer. I don't know if he actually owns the restaurant or not, but do know that he owns the real estate (thanks to a quick & easy search of tax records via the 'Net).
- Innkeeper - 08-04-2003
Up here and in other states restaurants have to pay retail. To make matters worse, the state has recently moved all the booze from state stores to retailers, so the available inventory has been cut by two thirds. If a restaurant or an individual wants a special order, they have to order a week in advance and get a whole case. The restaurants have been ordering wines directly from the distributors for several years now, but still have to pay retail.
- winoweenie - 08-04-2003
Another bonus about living in the West is most of the restaurants sell wine at very resonable markups. The Calif median has made it's way into Phoenix and most of the popular jernts charge 2xretail or less. The further you go up the coast in Calif the lower it gets till in some of the more popular watering holes the price is retail. WW
- Thomas - 08-04-2003
IK. are you sure about that? If so, that is the worst abuse I have heard by a state liquor control system, and I am sure it can be challenged in court.
As for understanding why restaurants have to mark up beyond retail--I simply do not buy into it. I have been in this business for a long time; I am convinced restaurants charge what they do because they can get away with it (I also know that quite often wine prices subsidize the food prices, which often are not profitable)--yet, the math proves that if they lowered wine prices they could increase profits through increased volume. Not enough people opt for iced tea for the system to change.
- Innkeeper - 08-04-2003
Am a sure as sure can be. The kicker is that most restaurant wine prices are not that bad, usually in the 2xretail area.
- barnesy - 08-04-2003
Being in the wholesale biz, I see this every day. I haven't bought wine at a restuarant in over a year, and then it was a well priced bottle.
It was described to me in a rather concise way when I was being trained and we were at a rather high end grocery store. To paraphrase "they'd rather sell one candy bar at $100 than sell 100 at $1." When ever I open up a new account, I try to talk to the owners or management about reasonable pricing, but I might as well be talking to a rock. Why have reasonable prices when everyone else is bending the customer over.
Barnesy
- Bucko - 08-04-2003
We are fortunate to have a delightful combo restaurant/wine shop here where the owner is a wine lover. She has 20 wines by the glass, plus a nice selection of wines in the shop. If you purchase a bottle for dinner, you pay retail plus $10 to have it served at dinner. Can't beat it. I go there at every opportunity.
[This message has been edited by Bucko (edited 08-04-2003).]
- Innkeeper - 09-13-2003
Our youngest daughter took as out to dinner last night as a belated anniversary gift. Went to one of our favorites, called Union River Lobster Pot, in Ellsworth. The wine special of the night was 2001 Hess Select Chardonnay $16. That was just about as good a value as I've ever seen in a restaurant. There "regular" price on it is $18 which is still less than 2X retail.
- stevebody - 09-14-2003
Been embroiled in this debate for weeks on another forum and I'll say it here:
Most restauranteurs try to use wine to make up for their inability to make sufficient profits from their food. They mark up wine that way because there is always a ready crowd of pigeons who think you're supposd to automatically pay a lot of money for your wine in a restaurant and they cough it up without a murmur. If they marked their food up to that extreme, nobody would ever eat there.
I've been having a two-year wrangle with my partners about markup and corkage and I've finally worn them down. Starting Jan. 1, we no longer charge corkage unless the SAME bottle shows up that we have on the list - same wine, same vintage. We will also sell at the high average 38% markup over wholesale that most grocery stores and wine shops use here. We're making money on our food because people like it and they LOVE the service. IF YOU CAN'T OPERATE YOUR RESTAURANT AS A PROFITABLE ENTERPRISE ON FOOD ALONE, WINE WILL NOT SAVE YOU. Guaranteed. There's a little Italian place here in Kirkland where I take Judye for Valentine's Day. They have one of our fave wines on the list, La Carraia Fobiano. They want $98 for it. Problem is, I know they paid $21.79 wholesale. I called the owner on it. He said that, if he didn't sell it at $98, he'd lose money. LOSE MONEY. I still go there because the food is great but I don't buy wine from him and he knows it. I pay his $15 corkage and come out waaaay ahead and he complains every time. But he'll never get that markup from me and, as I come to know his other regulars, I urge them to do the same. He's now LOSING BUSINESS but won't budge off his pricing. THAT'S the mentality of most restaurant owners today.
Mos restaurant owners see these usurious prices as their God-given right. They'll keep doing it until people stop paying it.
[This message has been edited by stevebody (edited 09-14-2003).]
- Thomas - 09-15-2003
Couldn't agree more SB.
The only thing you left out of the conversation is the possibility that when restaurants charge a reasonable price for wine they might--God forbid--increase wine volume; every retailer worth anything knows that profit in wine is all about volume...
- winoweenie - 09-15-2003
Three of the really special restaurants here in Phoenix are BYOBs'(2 fer the weener, 1 fer CB).When the idiots ran the laws for our wine lobby they made a horrendous mistake and left a loop-hole so any retauraant that sears 50 or less and doesn't have a liquor license can allow cutomers to BTOB. The other successful eateries charge any-where from dead-on retail to 2x retail.Life is GOOD!ww [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- Thomas - 09-15-2003
Maybe life is good for you, but I generally avoid restaurants that sear their customers instead of their steaks...
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 09-15-2003).]