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+--- Thread: shape of bottles? (/thread-12726.html)
- Deb C - 11-30-1999
Is the use of wide rims on wine bottles a trendy thing, which I can hope will go away? Most notably, E&J Gallo wines. Who, by the way, don't seem to have a web site, except in German, as I was going to email to them my gripe about their bottles. The wide rimmed bottles are ruining my favorite corkscrew (Tupperware) and the weird shaped bottles don't hold my rapid chilling device very well. So, does any one out there have insight into the industry? Or know if Gallos has a web site in English? Or maybe I should just stop purchasing Gallos or any trendy fun wine since it really does seem to annoy me!
- n144mann - 11-30-1999
Well Deb, I really can not offer you any ideas into the thinking at of the people at Gallo, but from a retailers standpoint, the funky bottle shapes are a pain for us also. They simply do not fit on the shelves easily or compactly. But, from a retailers alternate viewpoint....many many people love the unique shapes and will buy a wine to try for the first time simply because of the shape of the bottle or the look of the label. While I discourage this practice whenever I can, it is still a good marketing idea for the wineries, and so I understand why they do it.
What I am wondering is why the Chardonnay bottles need to be getting fatter and fatter?? Has anyone else noticed this trend?? It seems to me that the higher end ones are especially guilty of this, as are some of the New Zealand and Aussie Chards and even some of the NZ SB's...Kim Crawford is one of them ( tho I like the wine so it is worth keeping in stock, as are many of the others )....but, they do not fit securely into our laydown racks,which are wooden and we have no way of adjusting them to different widths. They are only about 4 years old, and fit all the bottles easily at that time, but not the newer rounder-wider ones. Some of the new bottles do not fit at all....really a pain!!!!
Hey Rick....maybe I should suggest we get new racks to accomodate these wide bottles...grin Start that renovation idea out right!! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 12-01-1999).]
- Thomas - 12-01-1999
When I was on the road selling wine for a distributor I often worked with producer reps. Many times a rep would come with the producer's new offering and many times the retailer would say, "I like the wine, but the bottles do not fit on my shelves."
The rep and I would of course try to get floor space instead, but the point that the bottles caused a selling block did not seem to register with the reps.
The bottles are a gimmick to make the wines look like they should cost more, and to make the bottles stand out from the others (that is why they keep getting fatter and different). But marketing gimmicks often have a tendency to increase price, create annoying problems and then sell more and more mediocre wine.
- kcharles - 12-02-1999
Deb C....
Just to let you know that there is now an English version of the website at Gallo. It is www.gallo.com and for your comments about the shape of the bottle, please write to ConsumerRelations@EJGallo.com and they'll do their best to answer your questions or hear your complaints.
Sincerely, Kimberly Charles, Communications Director E & J Gallo
- Jason - 12-03-1999
Interesting. The Big Brothers are watching.
- Jerry D Mead - 12-03-1999
The appearance was made by special request of one of your moderators...but you would be surprised at who some of the lurkers are out there.
- n144mann - 12-03-1999
Well, I commend them for showing up.....but ran into another problem with one of their wines today. The new russian river valley pinots don't fit in our laydown slots....now they normally would not be displayed on the lay down shelf anyway, but because of the price increase, we thought we would put it there with some of the other lower priced pinots.....guess again. IT is forever destined to be with the stand up bottles, along with the white zin and the boones farm.
Nancy
- Randy Caparoso - 12-04-1999
I like the big bottles. They have lips. For when I can't find a glass.
- Thomas - 12-04-1999
Kimberly Charles, or anybody else out there who has anything to do with marketing wine, are you listening to Nancy's lament?
Part of good packaging takes into account the product's retail home space.
Randy, do you break as many glasses at home as I do? I suppose now that the crazies got lead capsules out of the way, it is safe to drink from the bottle.
- Innkeeper - 12-04-1999
Be careful Randy. Regarding those wonderful new capsules Foodie refers to, I've already cut off my fingertips on them. Don't want you to do the same with your lips. Innkeeper
- n144mann - 12-04-1999
Well, I can't say I break many glasses, Foodie, (so rarely drink from the bottle) which is good because I like my antique crystal and use it ALL the time, even taking it out into my gardens, or along on walks in the evening when I am relaxing. But, when hiking or simply sitting and relaxing in the sunshine in the prairie near where I live.....well then I suppose being able to drink from a bottle might be useful. My favorite spots are quite remote, the less I have to carry out there the better.
You should give that a try sometime, Randy..... I think you would like the prairie.....it can be very beautiful. A great place to get away from it all!! And what better place than that to enjoy a bottle of wine??
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 12-04-1999).]
- Randy Caparoso - 12-04-1999
Oh, I was just kidding, folks. I never drink from containers... unless no one's looking (a guy thing). The problem with commercial home refrigerators, of course, is they usually only give you one slot for a bottle of wine. We typically have three, four, up to a dozen bottles open at a time! So they go everywhere -- on the leftover spaghetti, in the fruit and vegetable bins, etc.
Insofar as opening, there's good and bad about the big lipped bottles. The bad is that cheap ones will indeed crack under pressure from a lousy corkscrew. If that happens more than once to you, I strongly suggest that you get a new, better corkscrew -- one with an extra long spiral and wider slot on the lever so that you can extract with gentler, easier pressure. If not available in a local store, the wine catalogues advertised in the popular wine magazines always have a large selection. Of course, the best corkscrew in the world won't help if you can't place your spiral right down the middle!
The good is that these new fangled bottles are definitely more drip free -- a big plus if you're often serving reds on white tablecloths. In the restaurant, of course, I expect my people to know how to open a bottle. So the big lipped bottles are very much appreciated by those of us in the bizz-ness.
As for the prairie, Nancy, I think we need a goatskin!
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 12-04-1999).]
- winoweenie - 12-05-1999
Well Randy and Nancy, I must admit to being a closet bottle drinker . It`s a whale of a lot faster than pouring a dab to see if the bottles okie-dokie. But as a buyer I think the odd shapes should be kept to a minimum. I had some bottles faal out of their bins and break of their own volition. Haven`t really seen too much variation in the better wines yet ( Reds , Of Course ) except in the height of the bottles. They can be a pain when putting juice away. Knocked the whole darned top off a 92 Conn Creek Anthology.Bummer. Wino-weenie
- Jason - 12-05-1999
The bottle shape argument is a valid, long standing point.
However, the shapes are made for the various reasons (already mentioned) and the stores that these were designed for (grocery) do not use bins anyway, but rather facings. Thus, the major players dig funky bottles.
The reality is that when smaller retailers
can take 200 case drops on a regular basis, they too will be able to dictate bottle shape. The golden rule strikes again.
- n144mann - 12-05-1999
Okay Randy, it is a deal!! You bring the wine, I will bring the goatskin! You know what I like. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
As for bottle height being a problem.... that has not been too much of a problem at this point, except in our liquor section. Those new vodka bottles are beautiful, but are getting more and more outrageous all the time. Some of them are extremely tall!
Winoweenie, that is a bummer!....I have not had that happen yet! YET, being the key word here. I am sure it is just a matter of time before I break something. But my boss is the worst when it comes to breaking things, so by comparison, I am doing great. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
About the bottles being for the grocery store, that is right. But for retailers like us, we need to carry both the higher end wines and the grocery store wines, since the grocery stores around here are not allowed to sell wine or liquor, only beer. Go figure. Anyway, we carry about 600 premium wine labels in the store, and then gosh, could not guess on the label count for the stand up shelves. Too many...grin.
I keep telling my boss we need to get rid of some of them and add more laydown racks, there are just too many nice wines to waste the space on grocery store wines. I wish he would leave that to the other stores to supply!!
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 12-05-1999).]
- Thomas - 12-06-1999
Looks like Jason strikes again with a lucid analysis.
I can say this to the marketers, I spend a few thousand dollars a year on wine, and I never buy a wine for its bottle or label; sometimes I avoid a wine for those reasons.
But large volume sales leads the marketing effort; if you make 100,000 cases of a wine you need to move them fast. And since California producers are so lucky to have their wines sold through grocery chains in their home state, it seems they tend to gear their marketing toward that large volume sale outlet.
With consolidation going on everywhere, it is likely a matter of time before small wine retailers are pushed out of business in most states anyway, so I guess my pie-in-the-sky desire for marketers to think about the small retailers is a doomed idea.
I like dealing with small wine retailers and butchers and grocers and clothing shops, but hey, I am becoming one of the minority Americans.
- n144mann - 12-06-1999
I hear you foodie.....for me paying the little bit extra that is sometimes required to shop locally and at smaller retailers is worth every penny. The service you get is just sooooo much better.
We have looked into matching prices with the local discount club....increasing the size of the store to accomodate the extra volume of business that would create.......but we have really mixed feelings about it. It would decrease the personal service that we could offer our customers. It is nice knowing our regulars by name, and being able to spend time with them when they come in, getting to know their likes and dislikes. To this point it has not been worth giving that up.
Nancy
- Jerry D Mead - 12-06-1999
Re the flange top bottle, there is actually already a backlash for another reason. Because it is so widely employed on low-end supermarket wines, premium producers are backing away from its use because it makes them look cheap.
The next evolution will be that the cheapies will stop using because it lookss, well...cheap.
- winoweenie - 12-12-1999
Curmster, Nancy, Foodie & Jason. The 200 case drop, the consolidations, the marketing people, and the personal sevice are all really pertinant to not only the wine biz but darned near every other biz I know. My field, carpet, now has 3 major players, 6 serious guys , and about 18 really good perifial manufacturers ( Botique).The botiques can exist not by price, but one or two of the above scenarios. C`aint do it on price ( Gallo....our Shaw ) or marketing ( Beringer..our Horizon ). Style, Service,and Sex Appeal Comes to the rescue. God Bless America! WinoWeenie