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+--- Thread: Mionetto "Sergio" (/thread-10641.html)
- stevebody - 07-01-2003
Absolutely dazzling, delicate, graceful, honey/yeast/pear/apple/mineral Prosecco, with TINY persistent bubbles and the most agreeable mouthfeel of any non-Champagne I've ever encountered. I read a blurb Andrea Immer wrote about it in the current Wine & Spirits and got a sample from our rep. It retails for $20-ish and is worth every penny.
- winoweenie - 07-02-2003
Sounds like my cuppa' juice. Roberto, you'se got this animal and agree? If so, put back a box and I'll pick-up whenced I stop fer the other stuff-n'-such. WW
- Botafogo - 07-02-2003
Yeah, we sell it for $17.99 (and are CONSTANTLY bitching at Mionetto about their pricing!), I will put a case on your pile....
- Thomas - 07-03-2003
I don't sell it because I believe it is a rip-off, based on the availability of other truly good Prosecco at about $13 retail (Ombra, Bellenda), but without the expensive marketing to have to cover. Kind of like the Santa Marguerita Pinot Grigio syndrome...
- Innkeeper - 07-03-2003
Steve, I did not see a bubbly article by Andrea in either the June or August editions of Wine & Spirits.
- Botafogo - 07-03-2003
Our point EXACTLY, Thomas, as to the Mionetto Proseccos but the Sergio (more of a run at rich, extra dry style Champagne than Prosecco) is worth what we sell it for AFTER we grind them to death. At the price THEY want, we would have to sell it (and would not) for $21.99....
Roberto
- Thomas - 07-03-2003
Not knocking the wine--it's good, but it is not worth the price.
The one thing I have learned in the wine business is to disregard wines that producers THINK are worth a lot, because there are five for every one of them that ARE worth every penny, and my customers are loving me for that attitude; I save them money.
I understand that marketing money has to be recaptured somehow, but I choose not to make that our focus at is-wine. It's our form of niche marketing. I have this really stupid idealism that says to me "if you can get more people to drink wine more regularly you will be rewarded in heaven (and possibly on earth)." And I know that all it takes is to find good wines in samll production, or good wines in large production, but good wines with little or no marketing behind them--and NO ratings either.
Also, Roberto, I never ask a supplier to lower the price. In fact, if a supplier does lower the price of a wine, ostensibly for me, I immediately assume the supplier can't be trusted.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 07-03-2003).]
- Botafogo - 07-03-2003
>>Also, Roberto, I never ask a supplier to lower the price. In fact, if a supplier does lower the price of a wine, ostensibly for me, I immediately assume the supplier can't be trusted. <<
Say WHAT?!@?!?! That's the nature of buying and selling. We tell them what WE would pay for it and ask what needs to happen to do that, then we pass along the savings. Everyday some rep tells me "I couldn't ask for that price!" and we get his boss on the phone and ask him ourselves and 80% of the time they make the deal. Welcome to capitalism....
And, that doesn't mean the supplier can't be trusted, it means those who don't ask don't get.
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-03-2003).]
- winoweenie - 07-04-2003
Got to side with the Boto on this one Foodster. Regardless of what we've been taught, all BUYERS are NOT created equal. I can guarantee you that my major customers ( 250k to 1 mil per year ) pay less than the Momma/Poppa stores.Start flexing your muscles Foodie and you'll be doing an even better job for your customers. WW
- Thomas - 07-04-2003
I can guarantee that here on the East Coast the wine business is corrupt--on the supply side and the political side. Suppliers play many, many price games, and those volume retailers with the big bucks get the real price of the wine, while those with less resources are forced to pay more.
There is something called "blind" price posting. It refers to discounts available and reported to the SLA but not listed in the general supplier price sheets, and available only to select retailers. That produces in me a lack of trust. So, a supplier who promises to lower the price "just for me" is generally full of you know what.
Roberto, I lived in Iran, a part of the world where you buy nothing without haggling first. I learned that no price is firm--I also learned that most prices are too high. And when I was in the Air Force I worked part time, selling men's clothing, in Wash. DC. I learned from that experience the real mark up on suits--whew!!!
From my long life, I have developed a simple but likely unattainable wish that suppliers price at what something is worth, and do not play games with me. I admit, my attitude drives people nuts, especially my wife; she hates to shop with me; when I see something on sale I immediately complain to the seller that I was being robbed at the original price...
As for the Mionetto, I make my evaluation based not only on its price, but on its value relative to other Prosecci of merit. And the producer could do the very same thing before pricing the wine. Also, if I don't need the thing in the store, why waste my breath and energy persuading suppliers to do what they should just do?
- Botafogo - 07-04-2003
This may not be possible in your somewhat controlled market but what I am REALLY talking about is scooping up the stuff that you and I (and our customers) would like but that the suits at giant liquor companies have no interest in selling and we get it for LESS then they PAID for it. Why does this happen?
Winery makes three wines, a so so Pinot Grigio, a delicious Tocai and an outrageous Schioppettino which cost the supplier $3, $5 and $8 respecitively. The winery makes them take some of all of them, the distributor buys as much Pinot Grigio as possible (like a container with 1200 cases) and as little of the other two as possible (a pallet or two of each) because they have NO imagination or inclination to actually sell something interesting. They then price the Pinot Grigio at $8 wholesale which has us pissing on ourselves with laughter but price the Tocai at $6 and the Schioppettino at $9. We KNOW they will never sell them and wait until the next vintage arives and then offer them $3 and $4 respectively and THEY TAKE IT! We then offer the wines at LESS than their normal wholesale and consumers dance in the streets. As an added bonus, we wait to buy the liquor that we can only get from these idiots until we make this deal and thus do our part to make sure they lose money on every transaction they do with us.
Makes me proud to be an American, Roberto
As to the Mionetto, we only buy the Sergio for precisely the reasons you cite and we and a huge cross section of our knowledgeable consumers think the Sergio IS worth $17.99 when compared to what is availlable. We have over 250 choices of fizz, took in ten cases of Sergio last Monday and it is almost gone already on mostly case sales...
- Thomas - 07-04-2003
Roberto, few NY distributors buy the way you describe. The ones with the best wines are small, and they buy small.
- Botafogo - 07-04-2003
Thomas, WineBow and Vias are among the worst offenders at this and they are BASED in NYC...
We have recently offered Schioppetto Pinot Bianco (world class white) at $14.99 instead of $28 and will next week be selling Foradori Granato for under $25 (instead of $45+), all imported and distributed from NYC.
I have the feeling you just don't enjoy wrestling with Satan, we consider it jolly good sport....although sometimes it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel.
Have a GREAT Fourth and I hope to drag your ass out here soon, Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-04-2003).]
- Thomas - 07-04-2003
You are correct: I won't let the Winebow and Vias sales people near me. I want to deal with human beings, not with human beens.You should hear (you probably have) what some of the Italian producers say about you know who at Winebow.
One of the things that truly pisses me off is that these guys can get away with almost any price in restaurants. But by law, whatever price they post for restaurants they also must post for retailers; so we get to see the real highest prices for wines ever conceived, which is why we are going more and more to the source, and working with an importer who IS a human being.
I'll get out to SMonica one day--after a few priorities. My next trip will be October--Bergerac (to see a winery from whom we buy direct) and then a car trip through Languedoc and up to Avignon, for plaizure, as Verne would say.
But you know Roberto, I am growing nearer and nearer to wanting out of this business. I love wine too much to have to sell it in this ridiculously oppressive system. If only I was smart when younger to have socked away more retirement money--the way Verne did. I hear the geezer is so well set that he only has to breath in and out twice before he racks up a few thousand more in intereset payments.
- Botafogo - 07-04-2003
Beating those guys at their own game is A) big fun and B) a source of a lot of great wines. I am sorry you do not enjoy the bloodsport anymore... And, you KNOW what I have to say about the Big Leo and it ain't nice. BUT, that just encourages me to stripmine his mistakes.
Can we have the offline meeting in Rio de Janeiro? The plane fare is about the same from here as to Chicago and, once you get there, you can't give a way your money....
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-04-2003).]
- winoweenie - 07-05-2003
That's " Wheeze In-n-Out ".( cough, glurg, snort ). WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/eek.gif[/img]
- winedope1 - 07-19-2003
had this last night at a local Italian place. YUM!! had wild mushroom tortellini in a light cream sauce with it. Super!!! WD Will have to look for it around here. WD